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Thread: ESA's moon ambitions

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    ESA's moon ambitions

    ESA's top management has been propagating the idea of a moon village. To that end they organized an international symposium held December 15-16 on “Moon 2020-2030 – A New Era of Coordinated Human and Robotic Exploration,” staged at the European Space Agency’s (ESA) ESTEC in Noordwijk, The Netherlands.

    Grand ideas but as NEOWatcher would say where are the budgets. Watch ESA's next year budget to see if any money is allocated for the robotics required to support a moon base.

    http://www.leonarddavid.com/europes-...t-destination/

    Try and not let the “Mars-now” folks know.

    But there is increasing interest in Europe to prioritize the Moon as humankind’s next deep space destination.

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    More details from Leonard David on Europe Is Reaching for a Moon Base by the 2030s.

    There is growing interest in Europe to prioritize the moon as humanity's next deep-space destination.

    The moon, supporters say, can serve as a springboard to push the human exploration of the solar system, with Mars as the horizon goal. So Europe is ratcheting up what it sees as the strategic significance of the moon by pushing forward on lunar-exploration missions that would involve both humans and robots.

    Calling the effort a "comeback to the moon," European space planners envision a series of human missions to the lunar vicinity starting in the early 2020s. Those missions, according to the plan, will include coordination between astronauts and robotic systems on the lunar surface. Robots would land first, paving the way for human explorers to set foot on the moon later.

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    ESA has produced a eight and a half minute video on how the moon might be explored called - New Moon Missions? - Europe Looks Back and Forward.

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    Lets hope they do it, and are not hampered as NASA have been by budgets that keep changing.

    I like they was ESA are thinking about this. They propose a orbital station above the moon. That makes sample return missions much easier and cheaper as the vehicles used will be reusable. This also makes sense for human transport to and from the moon. On the funny side I would love to see a SpaceX launch from the moon

    I have always thought that going direct for Mars was a bit silly when a launch from a moon station has so many advantages.
    Assembling a space craft in earth orbit that has the capability to make the return trip to Mars always seemed a tall order. I suppose it all depends on how far they want to develop a base on the Moon.
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    The latest article to come out, of ESA plans for the moon took me by surprise, with their time lines. They expect to have their astronauts doing a series of human missions starting in the early 2020s, where they would interact with robots on the lunar surface from orbit.

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    The first two and a half minutes of this video show how ESA built a one and a half ton moon base here on earth.

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    Now an article that throws cold water on ESA Director-General Johann-Dietrich Woerner push for an international lunar exploration effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Now an article that throws cold water on ESA Director-General Johann-Dietrich Woerner push for an international lunar exploration effort.
    ESA would do better with a partnership that included NASA, and I'm not sure whether they have ever contacted NASA about a joint venture. The expense of the project is easier spread out over many revenue sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    ESA would do better with a partnership that included NASA, and I'm not sure whether they have ever contacted NASA about a joint venture. The expense of the project is easier spread out over many revenue sources.
    I am not sure if it is NASA that they should talk to. NASA has already indicated they are not interested to go to the moon and let ESA down badly with the ExoMars mission (a place NASA is keen to go to).

    They should be talking to the other 4 big space nations to coordinated all the moon plans into an international mission to set up a moon village. Russia, China, Japan and India all have plans for moon missions.

    China should be encouraged to lead the mission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The latest article to come out, of ESA plans for the moon took me by surprise, with their time lines. They expect to have their astronauts doing a series of human missions starting in the early 2020s, where they would interact with robots on the lunar surface from orbit.
    WOW

    I didnt realise that had advanced that far in 3d printing. Seriously cool video for those that havent watched yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by efanton View Post
    WOW

    I didnt realise that had advanced that far in 3d printing. Seriously cool video for those that havent watched yet.
    That is the video in post #6 and not post #5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by efanton View Post
    Lets hope they do it, and are not hampered as NASA have been by budgets that keep changing.
    Unfortunately they are as they are in a similar situation, being mostly funded by democratically elected governments that have budget limitations. But of course, having partners makes it easier to share the burden.
    As above, so below

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    I am not sure if it is NASA that they should talk to. NASA has already indicated they are not interested to go to the moon and let ESA down badly with the ExoMars mission (a place NASA is keen to go to).

    They should be talking to the other 4 big space nations to coordinated all the moon plans into an international mission to set up a moon village. Russia, China, Japan and India all have plans for moon missions.

    China should be encouraged to lead the mission.
    I should have added South Korea with the list of countries that ESA should talk to, as they have plans for a moon mission in 2020.

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    The ESA budget meeting in December will be crunch time in which direction ESA takes. On the table is the extension of the ISS to 2024, Mars and the Moon. France is keen on the Mars route but the others are for the moon route.

    http://spacenews.com/esa-sets-euro-r...ft-shop-visit/

    The European Space Agency’s penchant for a major lunar exploration program that would precede a full-scale exploration of Mars was fully in evidence on July 12 with the signing of a contract to put an ESA drill on Russia’s Luna-Resurs lunar lander.

    It remains unclear whether ESA’s principal member states, notably France, share the 22-nation agency’s emerging “Moon First, Mars Later” opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The ESA budget meeting in December will be crunch time in which direction ESA takes. On the table is the extension of the ISS to 2024, Mars and the Moon. France is keen on the Mars route but the others are for the moon route.

    http://spacenews.com/esa-sets-euro-r...ft-shop-visit/
    Did not see anything from the ESA budget meeting but this article indicates ESA is already developing a moon lander. The article was highlighted in the "How long until we colonize the moon thread".

    But how close are we to build a physical moon base? Very close.The rest of Europe appears to be behind Woerner's idea. According to the ESA, science ministers of each ESA member state have already endorsed Space 4.0. They are even developing its first Lunar Lander.

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    lol. There is no evidence ESA is developing a moon lander.

    Again, the link comes from a site obsessed with Aliens. Anybody seeking information on what is going on in space exploration is disinformed by this site.

    Cheers,

    pg

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7cscb View Post
    lol. There is no evidence ESA is developing a moon lander.

    Again, the link comes from a site obsessed with Aliens. Anybody seeking information on what is going on in space exploration is disinformed by this site.

    Cheers,

    pg
    Look at post 6 of this thread and see a vedio of how ESA has done work to build a building on the moon. I have seen no evidence that they had a budget for that either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Look at post 6 of this thread and see a vedio of how ESA has done work to build a building on the moon. I have seen no evidence that they had a budget for that either.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
    Two issues here:

    First, you're once again spreading fake news, and when caught, you try to defend your action by...

    Second, making a wild claim about a TEDx talk wherein someone from the ESA says, "Hey, look! We made a little pile of dirt into a sort of honeycomb using a 3D printer! Here it is on this table!" as opposed to your original claim in post 6...

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi
    The first two and a half minutes of this video show how ESA built a one and a half ton moon base here on earth.
    So, at this point, I'm just going to assume that anything you post in this section is fake unless someone else can corroborate it with a non-fake news, non-click-bait link.

    I'd prefer to know what's actually happening in this field.

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    Look at ESA Web site and you can read that they are interested in building a moon lander.

    http://m.esa.int/Our_Activities/Huma...e_Lunar_Lander

    The direction in which global exploration activities are heading provides ESA with a great opportunity of developing an autonomous lunar lander, which is capable of delivering payload to the lunar surface in support of a human presence on the Moon, as well as payloads directly supporting European exploration objectives.

    Assessments suggest that a lunar lander capable of cargo and logistics delivery would significantly extend surface exploration opportunities by enabling enhanced human mobility, extended human lunar surface presence and new surface exploration opportunities.

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    "ESA engineers assess Moon Village habitat"

    http://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/...illage_habitat

    Renowned architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, originator of many of the world’s tallest skyscrapers, has been working on an even more challenging design: a habitat for a future Moon Village. Their proposal has undergone rigorous examination by ESA experts at the Agency’s mission-evaluating Concurrent Design Facility.

    This review process flagged various issues but found no show-stoppers – which mean something resembling the company’s innovative, four-person semi-inflatable structure might well end up on the lunar surface in years to come.
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    "The satellites of Luna"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/Th..._Luna_999.html

    Since time immemorial, people have gazed in wonder at the Moon. Its gentle light suggests romance, its strong embrace powers the tides and it is even sometimes blamed for madness.

    The Moon was once the domain of the gods; many mythologies feature lunar deities. But humans are explorers, setting sail to discover new worlds and, five decades ago, Earth's natural satellite received its first visitors.

    Now as international teams across the world forge plans to revisit the Moon, ESA is elaborating how best to facilitate this exploration.
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    "Moon habitat blueprint at Venice Biennale"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/Mo...nnale_999.html

    A detailed concept for a lunar habitat, created by one of the world's leading architectural firms with ESA technical support, is currently on show at the Biennale in Venice. Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, originator of many of the world's tallest skyscrapers, worked with ESA on a semi-inflatable habitat design which could be part of a long-term vision for an international Moon settlement.

    The resulting design is on show at the 17th International Architecture Exhibition of La Biennale di Venezia. While the theme of the overall exhibition is 'How will we live together?', the SOM installation is called 'Life Beyond Earth', peering beyond our post-COVID-19 planet to show how human life can be sustained in the hostile space environment.
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    Excerpt from ESA's recent ESA Agenda 2025 document...

    ...Currently, ESA has secured European astronaut presence and the provision of habitation/refuelling modules on the NASA-led Lunar Gateway. ESA will engage in a large robotic mission to the Moon’s surface to reinforce European exploration identity and strategic autonomy. If supported, ESA will find the right arrangement with NASA to secure the historic landmark of a European walking on the Moon by the end of this decade...
    Full Agenda 2025 document is here.

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    Europe plans sat-nav and telecoms network at the moon.

    While focusing on ESA, just thought I would link to a recent post on the Artemis thread

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