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Thread: Cornice Avalanches on Mars

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincecate View Post
    There are white things that look like snow cornices at the tops of many RSL sites.
    My imagination is as valid as yours - they look like salt licks placed by Martian cowboys for Mars cows .
    It is certainly a delusion that they are snow cornices given the maximum of 5 mm of snow per year on Mars and the decades of looking for water on the surface of Mars that missed this obvious "snow". They may be actual salt. Or "salt/iron-sulfate". Or overexposed pixels. Or exposed bedrock reflecting light. It is up to you to provide the analysis that shows hat they are snow or to ask an expert. That is not my job.

    I go for the brine seeps as the mainstream but once again this is the mainstream idea - you are supporting and hardly defending an ATM idea.
    Last edited by Reality Check; 2016-Mar-14 at 04:34 AM.

  2. #152
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    We are talking about 0.5 to 5 meter wide RSLs. So a foot to 15 foot wide. The cornice might be less than a foot thick. After it slides down the hill there would be such a thin layer of snow that melts in salt or sublimates in sun so fast it should not be surprising if the HighRise camera in the afternoon does not see anything. I have explained this many times and yet you keep asking to see pictures of white all along the RSL path.

    Do you understand that during RSL season HighRise only goes over in the afternoon?
    Is there something about this that does not make sense?

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincecate View Post
    The cornice might be less than a foot thick....
    We are talking about fantasies given a maximum snowfall of 5mm per year. Cornices (at least on Earth!) are not thousands of times thicker than the snowfall.
    IF09a: Given a maximum snowfall of 5mm per year, what is the maximum depth of snow deposited at the top of an RSL per day.
    IF09b: Given your great knowledge of cornices, how big is the resulting cornice?
    Last edited by Reality Check; 2016-Mar-14 at 04:44 AM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincecate View Post
    I have explained this many times and yet you keep asking to see pictures of white all along the RSL path.
    What about I am not asking for HighRise images only makes my questions incomprehensible to you? Does having 2 questions confuse you too much?
    IF04: Why are the RSL dark streaks rather than snowy white streaks? This is simply that avalanche debris (not melted yet snow) is white, not dark. This is any images from any spacecraft.
    IF05: How do you explain the lack of images with parts of the RSL being avalanche debris, i.e. white? This is in case you think that most of the avalanche debris melts. This is any images from any spacecraft.
    IF06: RSL form near the equator where there is no snow and get longer during summer - how can cornices form with no snow?
    Think about a similar question: How many snow avalanches do we get in Tahiti?

    IF08: What is your evidence that RSL happens on slopes of ""salt/iron-sulfate" to justify your experiment using "salt/iron-sulfate".

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
    What about I am not asking for HighRise images only makes my questions incomprehensible to you? Does having 2 questions confuse you too much?
    IF04: Why are the RSL dark streaks rather than snowy white streaks? This is simply that avalanche debris (not melted yet snow) is white, not dark. This is any images from any spacecraft.
    IF05: How do you explain the lack of images with parts of the RSL being avalanche debris, i.e. white? This is in case you think that most of the avalanche debris melts. This is any images from any spacecraft.
    IF06: RSL form near the equator where there is no snow and get longer during summer - how can cornices form with no snow?
    Think about a similar question: How many snow avalanches do we get in Tahiti?

    IF08: What is your evidence that RSL happens on slopes of ""salt/iron-sulfate" to justify your experiment using "salt/iron-sulfate".
    To my knowledge RSL at 0.5 to 5 meters only show up on HighRise camera. Nothing else has the resolution to pick them up at all. So this is one confusion solved. There is no "any spacecraft", there is only HighRise images to show RSL. No other. The orbit that HighRise is in only passes over active RSL sites in the afternoon.

    If there is moisture in the air and it is below freezing at night there will be snow. This is just the way H2O works. I am amazed that a peak temp of 273 K does not prove to you that it is below freezing at night.

    Again, I have explained that I am just hoping that salt/iron-sulfate behaves similarly and makes a reasonable analog for Mars RSL sites and I have not and will not claim that Mars surface is 50% table salt and 50% iron sulfate so it is dishonorable for you to keep claiming I need to produce evidence that RSL slopes are salt/iron-sulfate.
    Last edited by vincecate; 2016-Mar-14 at 05:01 AM.

  6. #156
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    RealityCheck, it seems like your goal is to fight to save mainstream view, even if there is not really one or it is wrong. You won't concede any point, even simple things like a peak temp of freezing means below freezing at night. I wish your goal was a quest for the truth or "meeting of the minds" or learning and education, or something.

    Brine seeps do not make rather straight fixed width parallel lines that suddenly end. These lines are the kind you get from fast moving small avalanches going down cliffs on Earth. Brine seeps would use up the brine and never last long enough to do the kind of erosion we see at RSL sites. Brine seeps is not correct.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincecate View Post
    The water in the RSLs is evaporating so there clearly is enough moisture in the air to make RSLs. Do you understand this logic?
    Actually, this is an untrue statement. The atmosphere doesn't hold the moisture. The atmosphere can (read does) move and take the moisture with it (meaning it is not a source) and deposit it somewhere else. Wind is something that you cannot replicate in your vacuum chamber.

    There have been two observations of ice fog in Valles Marineris that I know of, so it is not impossible for a fog to happen.
    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest...s-of-mars.html

    I want to caution you though that that the RSL occur all year round and repeatedly over several years. The fog is almost never observed.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincecate View Post
    Brine seeps do not make rather straight fixed width parallel lines that suddenly end... Brine seeps would use up the brine and never last long enough to do the kind of erosion we see at RSL sites. Brine seeps is not correct.

    They are brine. There is salt there and likely water. This makes a brine. As for brine seeps making fixed width parallel lines; this has been observed in Antarctica. Here is a paper discussing just that, http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/1033.pdf about 1 Mb.

    Why do you keep discussing erosion? There is no mass movement and no erosion seen with RSL. This is one of the most confusing negative results of RSL surveys, why doesn't any sand or rock move? It baffles scientists who study flowing water.
    My travel blog Mostly about riding a motorcycle across the US and Europe. Also has cool things that happen in between.

  9. #159
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    Thread closed due to 30-day time limit. As usual, if you object to this decision, report this post along with your case for re-opening the thread.
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