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Thread: China's Chang'e 5 mission

  1. #31
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    "China's Chang'e 5 enters lunar orbit for historic attempt to return moon samples"

    The Earth, Moon journey took 112 hours, That is almost 5 days. I thought the journey to the Moon was only 3 days!

    https://www.space.com/china-chang-e-...rn-lunar-orbit

    China's Chang'e 5 spacecraft has entered orbit around the moon ahead of an historic attempt to collect samples from the moon and return to Earth.

    The 18,100-lb. (8,200 kilograms) Chang'e 5 launched on a Long March 5 rocket on Monday (Nov. 23) from the country's Wenchang Spacecraft Launch Site on Hainan Island and reached the moon today (Nov. 28) after an 112-hour journey.

    The Chang'e 5 orbiter module fired its main engine at 7:58 a.m. EST (1258 UTC; 8:58 p.m. Beijing time) when 249 miles (400 kilometers) away from the moon, the China Lunar Exploration Program announced just under an hour later.
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  2. #32
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    Probably took a slower trajectory to save fuel for the orbital burn.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    Probably took a slower trajectory to save fuel for the orbital burn.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China's launch of Chang'e-5 is seen as a threat to the US, by US Space Force General John Raymond.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-lunar-mission
    More on USA's unease with China's Moon mission. This time from House Science, Space, and Technology Committee Ranking Member Frank Lucas.

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/enter-t...h-to-the-moon/

    Today, House Science, Space, and Technology Committee Ranking Member Frank Lucas emphasized the risk the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) poses to American international leadership in science and technology following the launch of the CCP’s Chang’e-5 mission to the Moon.

    “The launch of Chang’e-5 is a significant step by China towards their goal of establishing a long-term presence on the Moon. The nation that leads in space will dictate the rules of the road for future technological development and exploration, and the influence of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in the CCP’s space program makes China a particularly irresponsible and dangerous candidate. Advancements by the CCP also jeopardize American international competitiveness in science and technology. We can no longer take America’s leadership in space for granted and must continue supporting the men and women of the American space program aspiring to launch crewed missions to the Moon, Mars, and beyond.”
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  5. #35
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    "China Lunar Sample Exchange Program"

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-l...hange-program/

    Given success of China’s Chang’e-5 mission to haul back to Earth lunar specimens, the Chinese National Space Administration (CNSA) is establishing procedures to share the material with international colleagues.

    Lin Yangting, professor with the Institute of Geology and Geophysics of Chinese Academy of Science, told China Global Television Network that researchers need to hand in proposals for studying the samples beforehand, and follow a series of procedures prescribed by the CNSA.

    “Now the procedure is still being discussed, it has not been fixed,” Lin said. “The procedure will be announced on the website of the CNSA…so we will apply for it. We will submit our application with a research proposal. There will be a committee to screen your application and then make the decision if you will get the samples or not.”

    ESA exchanges

    Liu said that lunar-sample-related exchanges between Chinese scientists and their counterparts from the European Space Agency (ESA) have already begun, and further joint efforts can be realized within a new mechanism.

    Roughly three years ago, the CNSA contacted ESA to discuss cooperation between European scientists and Chinese scientists working on lunar samples. “So we have discussed about this many times. And we are going to establish a joint scientist team, and this team will have several working groups. So we will work together on the new lunar samples,” Liu said.
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  6. #36
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    Now they are in the Moon's orbit. What are the steps -

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/chinas-...home-in-a-jar/

    China’s Chang’e-5 mission remains on track for dispatching its lunar lander/ascender to descend within the northwest region of Oceanus Procellarum, also known as the Ocean of Storms. The craft is to land near Mons Rümker, a volcanic complex in the northern region of Oceanus Procellarum.

    Within 48 hours, a robotic arm of the lander-ascender will be extended to scoop up rocks and regolith on the Moon’s surface and a drill will bore into the ground.
    More on the landing -

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-m...y-for-landing/

    The orbit period of the craft – comprising an orbiter, a lander, an ascender, and a returner — is roughly eight hours.

    After orbiting the Moon three times, which takes about one day, the Chang’e-5 will start braking a second time to enter lunar orbit with a perilune (low point above the Moon) of 200 kilometers, explained Meng Zhanfeng, design director of the Chang’e-5 probe in an interview with China’s China Central Television (CCTV).

    Afterward, the Chang’e-5 will face its busiest time.

    At a designated time, Chang’e-5’s lander-ascender combination will separate from the orbiter-returner combination. Some China space insiders are suggesting a possible landing time of 4:30 AM, November 30 (Beijing Time).

    While the orbiter-returner combination continues traveling along the orbit and prepares for a later docking, the lander-ascender combination will implement a soft landing on the near side of the Moon and carry out automatic sampling as planned.
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  7. #37
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    From the Chinese press - "China's Chang'e-5 lunar probe successfully brakes for lunar orbiting"

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-11-2...Eha/index.html

    There will be one more braking maneuver needed to be performed by the spacecraft before a successful moon landing.

    The first braking is designed to enter an elliptical moon orbit. The probe will then travel for about 24 hours, adjusting the position and making preparation to perform the second braking, which is to enter a circular moon orbit much easier for the landing operation, Meng Zhanfeng, one of the chief designers of the Chang'e-5 explained.
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  8. #38
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    Chang'e is now in a circular orbit around the Moon. Next step, land on the Moon.

    http://www.ecns.cn/news/2020-11-29/d...t7617394.shtml

    China's Chang'e 5 robotic lunar probe carried out its second braking maneuver Sunday evening, moving from an elliptical lunar orbit to a near-circular lunar orbit according to the China National Space Administration.

    Like the first braking operation on Saturday evening, the latest action was executed by a 3,000-newton-thrust engine on the spacecraft's orbiter, which was activated at 8:23 pm, the administration said in a statement.
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  9. #39
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    More concern from the USA on China's progress with the launch of Chang'e-5. This time Matthew Daniels, a senior expert for the Office of the US Secretary of Defence and a senior fellow at Georgetown University describes two options the USA might take.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-space-rivalry

    In a report published in October published by the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Daniels said the division was due mostly to US barriers, resulting in almost no direct links between the two countries in space technology research, development and operations.

    Those barriers include US export controls that have blocked most exchanges between the major powers on space technology since 1999, with additional restrictions on space exchanges on civil and scientific fronts in 2011.

    The US and China are the world’s front-runners in space, with the US ahead in technologies such as reusable launch systems and satellite manufacturing. But China is narrowing the gap, according to the report.

    That presents the US with a choice – the US can either cooperate with China in some areas or continue to freeze it out.
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  10. #40
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    What happens next, like when do we land?

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-11-2...L1S/index.html

    The second braking brings it closer to the moon. Over the next week, the probe, composed of four parts – the orbiter, lander, ascender and Earth re-entry module – will perform multiple complicated tasks on a tight schedule.

    The four parts will separate into two pairs. The lander and ascender will head to the moon and collect samples, while the orbiter and Earth re-entry module will continue to fly around the moon and adjust to a designated orbit, getting ready for the docking with the ascender.

    The landing operation is expected in three days. Once touched down on the lunar surface, the lander will collect two kilograms of lunar sample.
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  11. #41
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    "China's Chang'e-5 probe prepares to land on moon"

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/202..._139552667.htm

    China's Chang'e-5 probe is preparing for a soft landing on the moon to undertake the country's first collection of samples from an extraterrestrial body.

    The lander-ascender combination of the spacecraft separated from its orbiter-returner combination at 4:40 a.m. Monday (Beijing Time), according to the China National Space Administration (CNSA).
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China's launch of Chang'e-5 is seen as a threat to the US, by US Space Force General John Raymond.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-lunar-mission
    To be honest, I no longer trust the South China Morning Post, based in Hong Kong, to be an objective news source. I will leave it to your imagination as to why.

    I couldn’t figure out why a lunar sample mission would be considered a threat to the US, though admittedly it isn’t entirely unknown for certain officials to say unreasonable things. But the article goes on about the possibility of blocking the US’s access to space. I can see two ways this could be done: destroying facilities on the ground by various means or spacecraft in space by ASAT weapons. Obviously this would mean more than merely blocking access. The ASAT issue has been a growing concern for some time, and would be with or without China.

    I did a Google search to see if I could find a quote of John Raymond talking about Chang’e 5. I couldn’t. Of course, it is possible I missed it. What I could find were multiple articles with nearly the same text as the SCMP article and this (found using a short in article quote):

    https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News...state-of-spac/

    This is an official DOD article posted Nov. 25, two days after the Chang’e 5 launch. The SCMP article was posted on the 26th. The General discussed the growing ASAT threat. It was not specific to China. I found no mention of Chang’e 5.

    As far as I can tell, they are only related by timing. I suspect the SCMP article to be deliberately misleading and mostly through the title wording and leaving out the General’s concern about ASATs. Of course if someone can find the General really did comment on Chang’e 5, please present it.

    The upshot is that I don’t think this really has anything to do with the mission and perhaps doesn’t belong here?

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    More concern from the USA on China's progress with the launch of Chang'e-5. This time Matthew Daniels, a senior expert for the Office of the US Secretary of Defence and a senior fellow at Georgetown University describes two options the USA might take.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-space-rivalry
    This article starts with “Half a world away in the United States, the launch was a sign to US Space Force General John Raymond of the threat that China – together with Russia – poses in blocking American access to space.”

    But it doesn’t quote anything that would support the claim this launch had anything to do with the US’s concern.

    Then it goes on to talk about an article that was published prior to the launch. Again, I don’t see what this has to do with this mission.

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  14. #44
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    Hello Van Rijn,

    Too many threads are polluted with disinformation. Mods do not agree.

    Too many threads are polluted with USA Vs China gobbledygook. Mods do not agree.

    Sigh,

  15. #45
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    The articles did not surprise me, as they follow what the late Dr. Paul D. Spudis used to say. He also has presented his views at at least one Congress hearing.

    Here is one of them. - "China’s Moon Missions Are Anything But Pointless"

    https://www.airspacemag.com/daily-pl...ess-180961633/

    The concept of concealing true intentions in space by using science as a “cover story” has a long and venerable history. China’s upcoming missions to the Moon, in addition to seeking unique and interesting scientific information, are immensely significant operationally. The lunar science community welcomes these missions, but in this euphoria, those concerned with the broader arena of national interests should not lose sight of the fact that China’s dedicated move into cislunar space is driven by their military needs and ambitions, not by science. These missions are part of China’s long-term, deliberate strategy designed to obtain control of cislunar space. While the missions are not inherently bellicose, we would be foolish to ignore the obvious national security implications of such capabilities.

    “Pointless?” Not to China, and certainly not to those who understand the uses and value of cislunar space.
    Last edited by selvaarchi; 2020-Nov-30 at 02:58 PM.
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  16. #46
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    selvaarchi,

    Why not put all this stuff in ONE thread instead of turning every thread into politics?

    Cheers,

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The articles did not surprise me, as they follow what the late Dr. Paul D. Spudis used to say. He also has presented his views at at least one Congress hearing.
    No they don’t. The articles discussed earlier tried to conflate a stated concern about ASAT development by a general with a claimed risk from a lunar sample return mission. Again, if you can show the general actually brought up Chang’e 5, please do so. If you can, great. I have no interest in defending him. Rather, I’m concerned about the apparently misleading claims.

    Look, I hope this mission is successful and wish China well on it. I’m interested in the mission, which is why I read the thread. However, I’m not impressed seeing misleading articles that conflate unrelated defense issues with this science mission.

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  18. #48
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    Was Apollo a threat to the Soviets? No. But it was a demonstration. If we can build a big rocket and send men to the moon, we can also put MRV's on that rocket and shoot them at the Soviets.
    As a space enthusiast, as long as China is doing science and exploration, I'll cheer for them. I've been looking forward to this mission. I just wish they had a rover. The Rumker region looks as if it would be a fascinating place to explore.

  19. #49
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    It seems to me that the general is just mouthing to justify his command.

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    China apparently landed successfully on the moon.

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020...n-on-the-moon/

    Broadcasting was cut short and unexpectedly prior to the landing. Sigh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7cscb View Post
    China apparently landed successfully on the moon. Broadcasting was cut short and unexpectedly prior to the landing. Sigh.
    Possibly just in case it crashed. Looking forward to more news on this. Quite exciting.
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7cscb View Post
    China apparently landed successfully on the moon.

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020...n-on-the-moon/

    Broadcasting was cut short and unexpectedly prior to the landing. Sigh.
    Yes it did. Here is the Chinese press on that with a video of the landing.

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-0...6J2/index.html

    The Chang'e-5 probe successfully landed on the near side of the moon, the China National Space Administration (CNSA) announced on Tuesday.

    With the space probe's ascender on top, its lander made a touchdown at around 11:00 p.m. (Beijing Time), becoming China's third probe that has successfully made a soft landing on the moon. It has sent back footage of the moment it landed.
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  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Yes it did. Here is the Chinese press on that with a video of the landing.

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-0...6J2/index.html
    That second video doesn't look like actual footage, it looks like animation. Is the camera well out to the side of the craft to capture that shot? Or maybe it's just miscaptioned.

    The first video shows the lunar surface as the craft descended and that looks valid.

    ETA: Here's a YouTube video if the landing from the descent camera. Skip to 1:48:00 to see the landing:

    https://youtu.be/TP9CFLjHQd0

  24. #54
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    Various news agency reports with differing illustrations and photos. The celebration shot in the control room looks legit.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...ng-on-tuesday/ (notice the cartoon alien on the control room screen) (wait a minute, is that a Star Trek quote on the main screen???)
    https://www.space.com/china-chang-e-...-lunar-samples
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-0...6J2/index.html
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55148998
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Dec-01 at 05:27 PM.
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  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7cscb View Post
    selvaarchi,

    Why not put all this stuff in ONE thread instead of turning every thread into politics?

    Cheers,
    You are asking the person who starts a new thread every time someone in the Chinese space program doodles a sketch of a rocket on a napkin.

  26. #56
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    From chinadaily.com - "Chang'e 5 lands on moon, starts surface operations"

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/20201...d0ba992a1.html

    China's Chang'e 5 robotic lunar probe has just landed on the moon and will soon start gathering lunar rocks and soil in this landmark mission.

    As the landing procedures began as scheduled at 10:57 pm, the lander-ascender combination of the 8.2-metric ton Chang'e 5 started its 7,500-newton-thrust engine to reduce its flying speed and began to descend toward the moon from about 15 kilometers above the lunar surface.

    When the lander-ascender reached an altitude of 2.5 km, it conducted a rapid positional adjustment and continued approaching the lunar surface.

    During the engine-assisted process, cameras on the lander-ascender took pictures of the landing site and transmitted them to computers to identify possible hazards on the surface such as large rocks so the craft could maneuver to avoid them.

    The lander-ascender suspended its descent when it was about 100 meters from the moon and hovered for a short time to carry out accurate detection of obstacles before continuing to descend at a slower, steady speed.

    At the last moment of the challenging operation when the craft was several meters above the surface, its engine stopped and it touched down on the lunar surface at 11:11 pm, becoming the third spacecraft to successfully land on the moon in the 21st century. The other two craft that had achieved this feat were also from China — Chang'e 3 and 4.
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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    You are asking the person who starts a new thread every time someone in the Chinese space program doodles a sketch of a rocket on a napkin.
    Before anyone else replies in this vein, be advised: this thread is under discussion among the mods.
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  28. #58
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    "China's Chang'e-5 probe completes drilling, sealing of lunar samples"

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-0...UPS/index.html

    The Chang'e-5 spacecraft has sealed up soil samples obtained from beneath the Moon's surface, and is ready to continue collecting more samples from the surface, the China National Space Administration (CNSA) said Wednesday.

    After making a successful soft landing at 11:00 p.m. BJT on Tuesday, the lander started rolling out its solar panel wings and unlocking some of the payloads onboard to prepare for sample collection.

    The lander first drilled a 2-meter-deep hole, digging out soil, and sealed it up at 4:53 a.m. on Wednesday. Next, it will use its robotic arms to scoop up more samples from the lunar surface for backup.
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  29. #59
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    Color photo of lander leg sent back from Moon.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55160768
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  30. 2020-Dec-03, 10:07 AM
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    Double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    That second video doesn't look like actual footage, it looks like animation. Is the camera well out to the side of the craft to capture that shot? Or maybe it's just miscaptioned.

    The first video shows the lunar surface as the craft descended and that looks valid.

    ETA: Here's a YouTube video if the landing from the descent camera. Skip to 1:48:00 to see the landing:

    https://youtu.be/TP9CFLjHQd0
    Definitely a miscaptioned animation, zoomed in you can see it's actually very low res. Well done China - although I wish they'd not suspended the live broadcast: Landing a robot on another world is not a walk in the park. ISRO and SpaceIL have tried and failed in recent memory, China has already succeeded twice. Speaking for myself: If it crashed this time I wouldn't think any less of them and their team, and I'd applaud their achievements on just managing a crash landing. Don't be so worried about letting us watch what happens, as it happens, guys. People around the world genuinely support you in this.

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