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Thread: Calculation of the absolute radius of the Earth by the fundamental physical constants

  1. #1

    Calculation of the absolute radius of the Earth by the fundamental physical constants

    Hi all, I have derived a formula that calculates the Earth's radius and a gravitational acceleration by the Planck constant, the electron mass, the speed of light, and the geocentric gravitational constant:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...XlTaWVMVTB5LVU

    Can this be a coincidence? Or is gravity and quantum mechanics indeed directly related? Thanks.
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  2. #2
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    After checking the web on this topic, I have the feeling that this is not just a question for Q&A. Thread moved to ATM.
    Nikolay Sukhorukov, please read the special rules for ATM that are linked in my signature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    Hi all, I have derived a formula that calculates the Earth's radius and a gravitational acceleration by the Planck constant, the electron mass, the speed of light, and the geocentric gravitational constant:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...XlTaWVMVTB5LVU
    Your paper lists the geocentric gravitational parameter as having units "m3c-2", the "c" should be an "s"
    Can this be a coincidence? Or is gravity and quantum mechanics indeed directly related? Thanks.
    Your comment there:
    Thus, one should either acknowledge that the formulas obtained are some accidental coincidences for the Earth, or discuss the unusual assumption that at least some of the fundamental physical constants, which we consider universal for the entire universe, have other values in the sphere of action of other planets or other space objects.
    Do you acknowledge this? That it is most likely an accidental coincidence (which are very very common), or do you think that the physical constants must have different values on the moon?

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    Why do I get the feeling this "coincidence" is happening because the meter is based on the size of the earth. Of course, this is only partially true. It is somewhat obscured by the fact that the meter was redefined to the distance in which light travels in a tiny part of a second, which was approximately the same distance as the older measure of a meter. The point wasn't to have a standard meter, but to have the meter define lasers and beams of light.

    What value do you get by canceling the meter component from all of those numbers?
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    Can this be a coincidence?
    Welcome to the forum Nikolay Sukhorukov.
    If your calculations are correct then it is definitely a coincidence because planets exist that do not have the radius of the Earth.
    There is also the problem that strictly speaking the Earth does not have a radius because it is not a sphere. The Earth is approximately an oblate spheroid with different equatorial and polar radii.
    The Earth's mean radius is 6371.0 km. The value you get is 6,367.0211 km. Thus you do not get the correct value.
    Last edited by Reality Check; 2017-Jul-14 at 12:23 AM.

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    Nikolay Sukhorukov

    We don't like seagulls. You made your one post, and then apparently abandoned your thread. That is not acceptable and this thread is closed.

    If you decide to participate before your 30 days are up, Report this post and we will consider reopening the thread.
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    reopened
    All comments made in red are moderator comments. Please, read the rules of the forum here, the special rules for the ATM section here and conspiracy theories. If you think a post is inappropriate, don't comment on it in thread but report it using the /!\ button in the lower left corner of each message. But most of all, have fun!

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    Do you acknowledge this? That it is most likely an accidental coincidence (which are very very common), or do you think that the physical constants must have different values on the moon?
    I'm not sure. So I asked my question.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    What value do you get by canceling the meter component from all of those numbers?
    I think all modern units of measure (meter, second etc.) are tied to fundamental constants. For other units there would be other fundamental constants.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
    The Earth's mean radius is 6371.0 km. The value you get is 6,367.0211 km. Thus you do not get the correct value.
    This is not quite true. The rectifying radius of the Earth is about 6,367.454 km (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_radius ). It is very close to the value I have got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    I think all modern units of measure (meter, second etc.) are tied to fundamental constants. For other units there would be other fundamental constants.
    The meter is different, it is delineated not defined. The definition is in wavelengths and seconds, but the goal in picking this ratio was to not change to change the value away from the artifact previously used to define the meter. It did, but not by much.

    (Edit - First sentence was begun "it is", changed to "the meter".)
    Last edited by Solfe; 2017-Jul-21 at 10:28 PM.
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    I think all modern units of measure (meter, second etc.) are tied to fundamental constants. For other units there would be other fundamental constants.
    Not really. The second is an arbitrary number of transitions in a caesium atom. The meter is related to this plus a fundamental constant (the speed of light). The kg is just the mass of a lump of platinum-iridium in France. The kelvin is based on the freezing and boiling points of water (at a particular pressure) so not really fundamental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    The kg is just the mass of a lump of platinum-iridium in France.
    For decades, metrologists have strived to retire ‘Le Grand K’ — the platinum and iridium cylinder that for 126 years has defined the kilogram from a high-security vault outside Paris. Now it looks as if they at last have the data needed to replace the cylinder with a definition based on mathematical constants.
    14 October 2015
    http://www.nature.com/news/kilogram-...t-last-1.18550

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    I think all modern units of measure (meter, second etc.) are tied to fundamental constants. For other units there would be other fundamental constants.
    Nikolay Sukhorukov,

    You weren't asked what you think about modern units of measure. You were asked for a value. Please provide it. If you cannot provide it, please explain.
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    I keep getting seconds to the fourth and per meters to the fifth. The units don't even make sense. That isn't terribly surprising give my lack of math skills, but usually I can land in the ballpark. Can you break it down?
    Last edited by Solfe; 2017-Jul-21 at 11:07 PM.
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I keep getting seconds to the fourth and per meters to the fifth. The units don't even make sense. That isn't terribly surprising give my lack of math skills, but usually I can land in the ballpark. Can you break it down?
    Do you mean, the units for ?

    ETA: is GM, so its units are . Electron mass is in , Planck's constant is , and c is of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    Hi all, I have derived a formula that calculates the Earth's radius and a gravitational acceleration by the Planck constant, the electron mass, the speed of light, and the geocentric gravitational constant:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...XlTaWVMVTB5LVU

    Can this be a coincidence? Or is gravity and quantum mechanics indeed directly related? Thanks.
    Yes, it can be a coincidence. These things happen a lot.

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    Where are Google Calculator and/or I going wrong?

    (G*m_earth)^2*m_e/(8*h*2*pi*c^3)

    (((G * mass of Earth)^2) * m_e) / (8 * h * 2 * pi * (c^3)) =
    161.269059 kilometers
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

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    I don't know. Both of those look better than what I was messing with.
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
    Where are Google Calculator and/or I going wrong?

    (G*m_earth)^2*m_e/(8*h*2*pi*c^3)
    My was bad:

    (G*m_earth)^2*m_e/(8*h/(2*pi)*c^3)

    (((G * mass of Earth)^2) * m_e) / (((8 * h) / (2 * pi)) * (c^3)) =
    6 366.64724 kilometers
    Still just a rando in the neighborhood of r_earth

    radius of Earth =
    6 378.1 kilometers
    Edit: Google Calculator knows . I shouldn't have doubted the mighty Google.

    (G*m_earth)^2*m_e/(8*hbar*c^3)

    (((G * mass of Earth)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3)) =
    6 366.64724 kilometers
    Last edited by 01101001; 2017-Jul-22 at 01:26 PM.
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
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    So why 8? Why not use another number, say, 7.98563489?

    (G*m_earth)^2*m_e/(7.98563489*hbar*c^3)

    (((G * mass of Earth)^2) * m_e) / (7.98563489 * hbar * (c^3)) =
    6 378.1 kilometers
    Fixed it for you.
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersCreek View Post
    Nikolay Sukhorukov,
    You weren't asked what you think about modern units of measure. You were asked for a value. Please provide it. If you cannot provide it, please explain.
    Yes, I cannot provide it, because I did not analyze canceling the meter component.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    Yes, it can be a coincidence. These things happen a lot.
    Thank's. By the way, by using my theory, I also have got the exact radius of a third Van Allen radiation belt. If I am not banned, then maybe I will give the exact formula in a next thread.

  23. #23
    Note that you got the value of 6,366.64724 km probably because you used G*M = 3.9868e14. But I am sure that the astronomical value \mu = 3.9860e14 is more precise than G*M ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standa...onal_parameter ). So if using the astronomical \mu and the fundamental constants from NIST ( http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constant...e/allascii.txt ), the Earth's radius is just 6,367.0211 km.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
    So why 8? Why not use another number, say, 7.98563489?
    It is because to get the Earth's radius I used my quantum theory of the structure of the hydrogen atom. Quantum physics likes whole numbers - 8 and dislikes irrational ones - 7.98563489. But I cannot talk about this in details, since it is forbidden on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    <snip>
    It is because to get the Earth's radius I used my quantum theory of the structure of the hydrogen atom. Quantum physics likes whole numbers - 8 and dislikes irrational ones - 7.98563489. But I cannot talk about this in details, since it is forbidden on this forum.
    Nikolay Sukhorukov

    That is not a sufficient answer. What do you mean "it is forbidden on this forum"? You need to explain in more detail either what your details are or why it is forbidden. Is your answer political or religious, because I can't imagine what else would be forbidden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    The rectifying radius of the Earth is about 6,367.454 km (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_radius ). It is very close to the value I have got.
    The rectifying radius is a theoretical radius of a theoretical sphere and you even get that wrong because it is 6,367.445 km and you have 6,367.0211 km. The fact remains that the Earth is not a sphere. This is evidence that what you have is either irrelevant numerology, a coincidence or inadvertently included a radius of the Earth in your calculation.
    Last edited by Reality Check; 2017-Jul-23 at 10:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    It is because to get the Earth's radius I used my quantum theory of the structure of the hydrogen atom. Quantum physics likes whole numbers - 8 and dislikes irrational ones - 7.98563489.
    The Earth is not made of only hydrogen and so anything about hydrogen is mostly irrelevant to the size of the Earth . You need to model an Earth made up of its actual elements.
    Quantum physic does like integers but its results are real numbers, e.g. 7.98563489.

    ETA: You wrote that the factor of 8 comes from your quantum theory. Implying that the formula is derived from that theory. That will be incorrect because a quantum theory will not contain gravity (i.e. ).
    Last edited by Reality Check; 2017-Jul-24 at 12:46 AM.

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    And now that we have a compact query for Mr Google, now comes the inevitable application of your formula to other bodies. Why are all these ratios not 1.0? All from Google search results for (G*m_planet)^2*m_e/(8*hbar*c^3) / r_planet:

    ((((G * mass of Mercury)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Mercury =
    0.00797276022
    ((((G * mass of Venus)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Venus =
    0.698777299
    ((((G * mass of Earth)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Earth =
    0.998204362
    ((((G * mass of Mars)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Mars =
    0.0216372774
    ((((G * mass of Jupiter)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Jupiter =
    8 995.76321
    ((((G * mass of Saturn)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Saturn =
    956.62368
    ((((G * mass of Neptune)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Neptune =
    75.5975102
    ((((G * mass of Uranus)^2) * m_e) / (8 * hbar * (c^3))) / radius of Uranus =
    52.6310715
    And, of course, why are the ratios all over the place, from .007973 to 8996?
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
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  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Nikolay Sukhorukov

    That is not a sufficient answer. What do you mean "it is forbidden on this forum"? You need to explain in more detail either what your details are or why it is forbidden. Is your answer political or religious, because I can't imagine what else would be forbidden.
    From the rules of Сosmoquest:
    "We insist you keep your Against the Mainstream (ATM) or Conspiracy Theory (CT) topics about space and astronomy. We
    will close down any thread which doesn't have anything to do with space and astronomy immediately."

    I thought this forum is focused on astronomy and not on quantum physics. But if you allow me then I will. But I need a few hours to prepare my article with a detailed description of obtaining the absolute radius of the Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
    And now that we have a compact query for Mr Google, now comes the inevitable application of your formula to other bodies. Why are all these ratios not 1.0? All from Google search results for (G*m_planet)^2*m_e/(8*hbar*c^3) / r_planet:
    What constant would you change for each planet to make these ratios 1.0? Me, I'd change that arbitrary 8, to some arbitrary magic value based on planet; I can calculate those for you.

    Do you think you should keep that 8 and make electron mass a function of planet, or hbar, or c -- or all of them? Why?
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Sukhorukov View Post
    From the rules of Сosmoquest:
    "We insist you keep your Against the Mainstream (ATM) or Conspiracy Theory (CT) topics about space and astronomy. We
    will close down any thread which doesn't have anything to do with space and astronomy immediately."

    I thought this forum is focused on astronomy and not on quantum physics. But if you allow me then I will. But I need a few hours to prepare my article with a detailed description of obtaining the absolute radius of the Earth.
    Thank you for responding.

    A discussion of quantum physics, particularly as it relates to the topic of this thread, is completely allowed. Pretty much any topic broadly related to space, astronomy, and physics is allowed, including chemistry, planetary science, and biology. What we don't want are ATM and CT threads completely unrelated to such topics, for example, anything related to politics or geopolitics.

    You can always PM a moderator in advance if you are uncertain about a given topic.
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