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Thread: Clark C McClelland for real?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    You are not interested in the truth. You are interested only in validating your beliefs. That is painfully obvious given the way you treat evidence and testimony in this thread. Someone in NASA or a government post doesn't support your beliefs? Clearly part of the conspiracy and must not be believed. Someone with almost exactly the same background who does? Clearly a hero risking everything to get 'the truth' out there and must be believed implicitly, however they behave or whatever they do.

    Many people have actively and honestly looked into the aliens/UFO connection and concluded that the evidence does not support the claims. You just refuse to believe them.

    After several pages of vague claims and weak arguments I think I'll join the chorus asking the very valid question Swift posed.

    Direct questions:
    What would convince you that there was no alien presence on or around the Earth?
    What is your strongest example of evidence that there is alien presence on or around the Earth?
    What evidence do you have that justifies the accusations you are making against the people who would have to be part of the conspiracy to silence this?

    Please answer in detail and provide references to events you cite. I am asking for references because your track record in accurately providing summaries of events so far is not good (see your claims about the deaths of people looking into UFOs, for example)
    Here is an interesting article listing a host of now dead ufologists and others connected to the field.... Most dying under suspicious circumstances....far more people than my first link.

    http://www.metatech.org/wp/ufos/is-s...investigators/

    A whole different perspective on the phenomenon and researchers deaths in the article below: It's the (BAD) Aliens

    http://www.alienresistance.org/discl...aused-by-ufos/
    Last edited by Grant Hatch; 2017-Aug-11 at 08:24 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Here is an interesting article listing a host of now dead ufologists and others connected to the field.... Most dying under suspicious circumstances....far more people than my first link.
    http://www.metatech.org/wp/ufos/is-s...investigators/
    Suspicious? Many of them died of cancer. What is suspicious about that? Oh, wait. They got cancer so the government must have done it. Or they committed suicide. And the people who write that article use rumours they have heard, their own judgement ("They had so much to live for so they can't have committed suicide!" - please note that this attitude of complete strangers always being able to 'spot' people who are suffering and at risk of suicide is so flawed I don't even know where to begin) and a series of claims presented without evidence.

    You also have not answered my questions. Please do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    A whole different perspective on the phenomenon and researchers deaths in the article below: It's the (BAD) Aliens
    http://www.alienresistance.org/discl...aused-by-ufos/
    I'm not even going to look at that link. I can feel it reaching out to kill my brain cells.

    You have not even proven that there are a significant number of deaths (compared to the general population) that are unexplained or suspicious. Prove that before I read some fantasy about alien assassins.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Here is an interesting article listing a host of now dead ufologists and others connected to the field.... Most dying under suspicious circumstances....far more people than my first link.
    You know, I started looking through it and it just is not persuasive at all. It has an astronaut dying at the age of 69 of brain cancer, and saying that he "seemed ready to talk about aliens," but there is no evidence that that is true or not. There's a journalist that died somewhat suspiciously, but she was well known for investigating JFK, so why would we assume it had anything to do with aliens and not JFK? I mean, a lot of the people listed were involved in investigating other things as well. And they also talk about a guy who collapsed and had nose bleeding, and surmised that it was a stroke. I don't think nose bleeding is a normal symptom of stroke, more likely some problem with the lungs (the nose isn't connected directly to the brain, even though they are close anatomically). So it's just a person throwing anything in that might have some persuasiveness, and then you get a long list, but it's not very well thought out.
    As above, so below

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    There are so many questionable assumptions in the above that I will just say..... Data can be manipulated or lost/sequestered, so can people. Conspiracies can be complicated....
    So see, the problem when you go there is that you are getting into the "god moves in mysterious ways" territory. If there is clear evidence, it's because they decided to give us clear evidence. If there is no evidence at all, it is still evidence that they are here because they just hid the evidence well. And if there is inconclusive evidence, then obviously they left the evidence to be deliberately inconclusive. So no matter which it is, you will believe, but you won't be able to convince me, because I'm not willing to accept a "whatever it is, it is evidence" way of thinking.

    To be honest, with the whole thing about ETs, it seems clear to me that a mixture of pathological liars (they do exist, even in high places), people who make mistakes (we all do that), and perhaps a dose of real covert action, say governments using the UFO belief to hide secret weapons, would easily lead to a situation where you have conflicting evidence. I don't possibly see how you could figure out which is true, short of having some real clear evidence, say a press conference with aliens present.

    And also, I'm not even so sure why you're so interested in "getting the truth out." From your own arguments, it seems that you believe that they are extremely powerful and will only let things come out if they want to (they are advanced in technology and can hide things if they want). So there isn't anything we can do. We just have to wait until they deem it a good time. Until that time, why would they allow you to have evidence that they exist? So according to your scenario, you won't be able to get the truth out unless they allow you to; otherwise you will simply die in suspicious circumstances.
    As above, so below

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    You could be right. On the other hand you know what they say about "asssumptions".
    There is a difference between an assumption and a null hypothesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Could be he broke a rule or betrayed a secrecy clause or... Bureaucrats are notorious sticklers for rules. Perhaps he lost his pension for some stupid reason, perhaps not. I, for one, think it is interesting (and sad) given his years of service.
    That would result in a court case unless such loss was uncontested. Either there was a court case which would be public record, or such decision was uncontested, or it never happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    I'm not claiming anything except that it is seemingly not a "normal" ending to a career with NASA, and might lend support to my "hypothesis". Could they really cut him off for not paying in for a year? He supposedly worked for over 30 years for NASA. Perhaps he was never entitled to a pension.... and his claims are all baloney. Just trying to cash in on the UFO "thing". OR.....he is for real.
    That would be dependant on the T&Cs. Were he even retained at any time, as a sub-contractor, he would be entitled to nothing as a general rule. That would be specified in the contractual documentation. Were he a direct employee, that would be in the terms of the employment contract. Have you seen any such documents?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    If the agency (or certain people within it) wants to punish him for speaking out they certainly could in a variety of ways.....even manufacture false hoods and muddy the facts regarding his claims and his pension.
    Or if the claims are without merit they would defend themselves. Do you think NASA should never defend themselves against false accusation? Would you do that?

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    You could be right. On the other hand you know what they say about "asssumptions". Could be he broke a rule or betrayed a secrecy clause or... Bureaucrats are notorious sticklers for rules. Perhaps he lost his pension for some stupid reason, perhaps not. I, for one, think it is interesting (and sad) given his years of service. I'm not claiming anything except that it is seemingly not a "normal" ending to a career with NASA, and might lend support to my "hypothesis". Could they really cut him off for not paying in for a year? He supposedly worked for over 30 years for NASA. Perhaps he was never entitled to a pension.... and his claims are all baloney. Just trying to cash in on the UFO "thing". OR.....he is for real. If the agency (or certain people within it) wants to punish him for speaking out they certainly could in a variety of ways.....even manufacture false hoods and muddy the facts regarding his claims and his pension.
    You sure like to ramble on without a lick of evidence...when will you be getting around to ACTUALLY PRESENTING EVIDENCE for your claims?

    Sorry to "shout", but I'm starting to see more claims, and still no evidence for ANY of these claims.
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    A second question... is there anything that would convince you that there is no such cover up on an alien presence on Earth?
    Grant....can you answer this question?
    Last edited by R.A.F.; 2017-Aug-11 at 01:33 PM. Reason: to make less confrontational...
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    If the agency (or certain people within it) wants to punish him for speaking out they certainly could in a variety of ways.....even manufacture false hoods and muddy the facts regarding his claims and his pension.
    Any evidence whatsoever that NASA has EVER done anything like that?

    Of course not...so please stop making up more claims, and address the claims you have made.
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Here is an interesting article listing a host of now dead ufologists and others connected to the field.... Most dying under suspicious circumstances....far more people than my first link.

    http://www.metatech.org/wp/ufos/is-s...investigators/
    Not an interesting article. None of it is remotely true.

    A whole different perspective on the phenomenon and researchers deaths in the article below: It's the (BAD) Aliens

    http://www.alienresistance.org/discl...aused-by-ufos/

    And note this...

    (Note Astronaut Edgar Mitchell and UFO video photographer Jason Leigh have both come forward to ask Dr. Greer to stop using their names and material unscrupulously http://www.rense.com/general10/mitch.htm).
    ... from your linked article. Why is that?

    ETA Fix Quote tags
    Last edited by Abaddon; 2017-Aug-11 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
    Not an interesting article. None of it is remotely true.

    A whole different perspective on the phenomenon and researchers deaths in the article below: It's the (BAD) Aliens

    http://www.alienresistance.org/discl...aused-by-ufos/

    And note this...



    ... from your linked article. Why is that?

    ETA Fix Quote tags
    Several possible reasons present themselves to me. Perhaps they don't like the Ideological posture of Greer because the article is highly critical of Dr Greer's Assumption that ALL the Aliens are friendly and pose no threat to us in any way. It goes on to support any and all hypothetical Military/black ops action which have resulted in the present hypothesized paradigm as justified, while Dr Greer Blames the Military as the Agent of the cover up and abduction phenomenon.

    Another facet of the Alien hypothesis is The million dollar question regarding the associated abduction phenomenon.....Why? Why are people being abducted (if indeed they are)? Several competing hypothesis exist. My favorite is the "genetic tweaking" one.
    Last edited by Grant Hatch; 2017-Aug-11 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Grant....can you answer this question?
    Given my hypothesis...how could I? Do you seriously think I'd Ever get access to ALL the classified materials I'd need to be convinced? And don't use the "impossible physics" argument which some do, saying it is simply impossible for Aliens to visit us given the vast distances and time frames. Not a valid argument unless you KNOW that no further advancements modifying/extending Einstienian physics "conclusions" are possible.
    Last edited by Grant Hatch; 2017-Aug-11 at 04:20 PM.

  12. #102
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    And don't use the "impossible physics" argument which some do, saying it is simply impossible for Aliens to visit us given the vast distances and time frames.
    On the flip side I've read on these forums that if the human race survives and spreads out from the solar system that it would take only 1 million years to explore the far reaches of the Milky Way. Just a blink in the eye of time. Seems reasonable to assume that ET could do the same and set up shop wherever they like.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Given my hypothesis...how could I?
    I'll take that as a no...in other words, there is no evidence that would convince you that you are wrong...

    ...so what is the point of this thread?
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    On the flip side I've read on these forums that if the human race survives and spreads out from the solar system that it would take only 1 million years to explore the far reaches of the Milky Way. Just a blink in the eye of time. Seems reasonable to assume that ET could do the same and set up shop wherever they like.
    If so the people who wrote it where very wrong. Absolute best case that would be require travelling at around 100 times light speed...

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Glad to hear it. So am I... I disagree with you about the finding us part.... Just because present science seems to think the distances and time frames are to great doesn't mean they are to aliens who have been around for who knows how many (Lots!) more years than us. WE are babes in the woods compared to them and Einstienian physics will be eclipsed just as Newtons was. Yes, it's sad so much ** surrounds the subject but greed is a very human trait and so is the pursuit of power and influence. If McClellan wants money to tell his story I can't say as I blame him given the possible repercussions if any part of the conspiracy hypothesis is correct.
    Thing is, we have only become visible only a short time ago (radio waves, atomic bombs). Before then, we had no electronic noise to signal the presence of technological beings. The Milky way has 200 million stars, NASA now even saying it might be even ten times more. The diameter of the Milky Way is about 100,000 light years. Nasa has discovered lots of exoplanets in the vicinity. We have no idea of the lifespan of an intelligent civilization. Lots of hurdles for an alien civilization must overcome to find us.

    The technology an advanced civilization might have is just pure speculation. Just like aliens visiting the earth - speculation. Nothing against it, as long as it is recognized as such. Keep an open mind, but do not contaminate with preset ideas. Avoid the "I want to believe" X-files mentality. Something weird is observed - investigate it, but do not jump to conclusions, such as "it must be aliens".

    As far as McClellean is concerned: saying he saw an 8-9 foot tall alien talking to astronauts in space (and no one else saw it) or quoting an astronaut deceased of 30 years ago as having told him he saw alien bodies in Roswell smacks of tall tales for notoriety to me.

  16. #106
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    If so the people who wrote it where very wrong. Absolute best case that would be require travelling at around 100 times light speed...
    As gzhpcu pointed out the Milky Way is roughly 100,000 LY in diameter so traveling at 10% the speed of light would transverse that distance from end to end in approximately 1 million years.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Given my hypothesis...how could I? Do you seriously think I'd Ever get access to ALL the classified materials I'd need to be convinced? And don't use the "impossible physics" argument which some do, saying it is simply impossible for Aliens to visit us given the vast distances and time frames. Not a valid argument unless you KNOW that no further advancements modifying/extending Einstienian physics "conclusions" are possible.
    Grant Hatch,

    The above quote is only one example of the many unsupported claims, assertions, accusations, and guesses you offered in this thread...all liberally peppered with logical fallacies and references to other unsupported claims. If you post anything like this in CT again and do as poor a job of supporting your claims as in this instance, you should expect that the thread won't last nearly so long.

    Thread closed. Report this post to make a reasoned case for reopening.
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