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Thread: 2018 - Directly 'Sees' Our First Black Hole

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeb8 View Post
    I think another well tested technique, such as light bending, should be used to determine the mass of the black hole in the first place (A -> B -> C) if you want to test the predictions of GR in regards to orbital velocities.
    Or we could go out there and put it on a kitchen scale. You know, while we are ignoring the practicality of a method.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    Or we could go out there and put it on a kitchen scale. You know, while we are ignoring the practicality of a method.
    I believe the costs / benefits are reasonable. I could write an algorithm like this within a week. My 2 cents...


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeb8 View Post
    I believe the costs / benefits are reasonable. I could write an algorithm like this within a week.
    The problem is not making the algorithm but the observations.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    The problem is not making the algorithm but the observations.
    And the galaxies are moving so maybe the background will be different after a year. If thatís the case then this should be even a more precise technique.


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeb8 View Post
    I believe the costs / benefits are reasonable. I could write an algorithm like this within a week. My 2 cents...
    Go on then. Write an algorithm that can:
    Deconvolve an unknown foreground signal from the data (unknown because the unknown distance to the galaxy in line of sight means the foreground signal cannot be easily determined)
    Accurately clean an unknown background (because we don't know what else is nearby or what the hypothetical galaxy actually looks like)
    Segment this unknown background such that a galaxy of unknown properties can be accurately found and parameterised
    Deconvolve the foreground effects on the signal from the background (because even after we remove direct emission of the foreground the matter there is going to affect the transmission)
    Estimate the parameters of the black hole from this transformation.

    You are welcome to use data sets like the Millennium simulation to estimate matter distribution and freely available code to do the propagation modelling. That should just leave you with the signal extraction.

    If you cannot do that in a week then might I suggest you stop making claims like this? The problem simply contains too many poorly defined or unknown components and your hyper-simplistic view of how signal processing works in this case is blinding you to the complexity of the observations and processing required. You are making the canonical bad management mistake - "I don't fully understand the situation but I can't see how it is hard - so finish your project in a week"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    If you cannot do that in a week then might I suggest you stop making claims like this? The problem simply contains too many poorly defined or unknown components and your hyper-simplistic view of how signal processing works in this case is blinding you to the complexity of the observations and processing required. You are making the canonical bad management mistake - "I don't fully understand the situation but I can't see how it is hard - so finish your project in a week"
    If I had the image of a black hole and its animated background for a period of a few months and I could win a cheap prize then I would do it. I still like "constructive challenges" despite my age.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeb8 View Post
    If I had the image of a black hole and its animated background ...
    And there's the problem.

    I'm sure if anyone had access to (or even the possibility of) such an image then they would be doing what you suggest and more.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And there's the problem.

    I'm sure if anyone had access to (or even the possibility of) such an image then they would be doing what you suggest and more.
    Ok I see. Thanks!


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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeb8 View Post
    If I had the image of a black hole and its animated background for a period of a few months and I could win a cheap prize then I would do it. I still like "constructive challenges" despite my age.
    Here's the Chandra Image Archive: http://chandra.si.edu/photo/category/milkyway.html
    There is also the NRAO data archive if you want to try some VLBA data: https://archive.nrao.edu/archive/advquery.jsp

    I'll give you $1000 and an apology if you can do it.

    I'll be generous and give you two weeks. Look forwards to seeing your results.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    Here's the Chandra Image Archive: http://chandra.si.edu/photo/category/milkyway.html
    There is also the NRAO data archive if you want to try some VLBA data: https://archive.nrao.edu/archive/advquery.jsp

    I'll give you $1000 and an apology if you can do it.

    I'll be generous and give you two weeks. Look forwards to seeing your results.
    Thanks but you & Strange were right and there is no animated GIF similar to this one:
    https://78.media.tumblr.com/3c17f6c3...7ohno1_250.gif

    Although the following one is a real lensing:
    https://d1o50x50snmhul.cloudfront.ne...5460-2_469.gif

    I rather wait for a better view of the black hole later this year. But I'm sure by then somebody else will steal my idea.
    Last edited by philippeb8; 2018-Jan-14 at 07:43 PM.

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