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Thread: UFO's and Nukes, saved from ourselves?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    Is this self-necromancy?
    Thread necromancy, self or otherwise, is not against the rules.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  2. #62
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    One thing about being "saved" by an external force is, it robs us of agency. We lose any benefit from saving ourselves, thus voiding lessons learned from our close shave with our self destructive tendencies.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  3. #63
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    I like the idea of agency and external intelligences respecting our agency. Of course total destruction and the post annihilation memo that says “told you so!” Or “I could have told you if you had asked’ is not much help. I do believe in agency (but cannot prove we have it, ) and unfortunately there is a corollary that others have agency too.

    It also occurs to me that if we are being monitored there might be two or more monitors with opposed views. This is nicely explored in Damien Ouspenski’s book of short stories, ” talks with a Demon” in those stories, we have demons who try to save us by do not understand our psychology, and demons who play with fate concepts for their amusement or are they trying to obey cosmic rules?
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    I like the idea of agency and external intelligences respecting our agency. Of course total destruction and the post annihilation memo that says “told you so!” Or “I could have told you if you had asked’ is not much help. I do believe in agency (but cannot prove we have it, ) and unfortunately there is a corollary that others have agency too.
    And there's no sign of others. So we have to start with the assumption that we survived on our own efforts. An attitude of "aliens/angels took care of that for us" is akin to saying, we couldn't make it on our own, and I'm vehemently opposed to that viewpoint.

    Same with Ancient Aliens building the pyramids; we humans can stack blocks of stone. The engineering involved is a major human achievement. Why not give credit where credit is due?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    And there's no sign of others. So we have to start with the assumption that we survived on our own efforts. An attitude of "aliens/angels took care of that for us" is akin to saying, we couldn't make it on our own, and I'm vehemently opposed to that viewpoint.

    Same with Ancient Aliens building the pyramids; we humans can stack blocks of stone. The engineering involved is a major human achievement. Why not give credit where credit is due?
    Absolutely! If aliens are unlikely now that we know more about planets, stars and stuff, they were unlikely then too. We have been through a renaissance/ enlightenment that cast our ancestors as brutal cave men. Maybe the catastrophes of the last ice age did bring us low, but humans survived. But by others I did not mean aliens, just others of us with agency. So saved from ourselves is a generous spirit when saved from the agency of other people is a pressing concern.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    But by others I did not mean aliens, just others of us with agency. So saved from ourselves is a generous spirit when saved from the agency of other people is a pressing concern.
    I'm not sure I understand this; saved from ourselves is also, saved by ourselves. We were humans acting on humans.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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