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Thread: UFO's and Nukes, saved from ourselves?

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    UFO's and Nukes, saved from ourselves?

    For years I've been reading and hearing/seeing reports of UFO's in the vicinity of Nuclear facilities. They were usually mixed in with a mishmash of other reports about UFO sightings. I found the Nuclear UFO reports intriguing. Were the UFO"s saving us from ourselves and nuclear armageddon?? Someone has finally put together a documentary focusing on the Nuclear connection... It collects and details the apparent interest UFO's have in our Nuclear weapon systems. According to the ex military personnel testifying in this documentary our IBM launch systems have been disabled and even enabled for short periods of time while UFO's were seen around and over the facilities. Similar stories came out of the USSR after its dissolution. Here is a link...

    https://www.disclose.tv/ufo-nukes-307914

    Are they interested in letting Nuclear armed countries know they can control our weapon systems against our will? Should we be worried or relieved if the reports are true?
    Last edited by Grant Hatch; 2018-Apr-05 at 05:00 AM. Reason: additions, spelling

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    Sounds similar to the storyline of the original "The Day The Earth Stood Still" movie. But assuming that certain UFO's represent strange visitors of unknown origin who were mildly interested in us over thousands of years but more recently became very interested once we detonated the first atomic weapon then perhaps so. But are they more interested in saving our delicate planet from nuclear contamination or saving the human race from destroying itself? On the other hand, it may be neither reason if these beings are from a parallel universe and when we detonate these bombs it somehow affects their universe in a negative manner. One can only guess at their origin and their motives.

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    The "saving us from nuclear destruction" trope has been a feature of UFO encounters ever since Adamski.
    The various motivations offered for why the Space Brothers might be in a tizz about our nuclear weapons have never quite made sense, and have always reflected a rather human-centric viewpoint. Almost as if humans had invented them.

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    If we're going to admire those who have saved us from ourselves, I'd rather start with the humans that inventing outsiders. Let's start here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

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    The video is by Robert Hastings, who has appeared on CNN, etc. He started a thread, which was extensively discussed, here: https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthr...kes&highlight=

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    Whew, that was quite a read, 10 years old and 30 pages no less. As per usual for ufo related threads there isn't any conclusive answer, none really expected. I now understand that when I first posted here 5 years ago about ufos why I was confronted with such resistance to the topic, but more recently it seems to have mellowed out a bit.

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    That doesn't mean that the UFO reports are getting any more credible. Hastings' stories about UFOs and nukes do not seem to hold much water - notice that very, few first hand sightings are included in his reports. Over and over again the correspondents describe sightings at second or third hand. It is curious that the people that actually saw these objects rarely came forward themselves.

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    It's nuclear weapons today, Solaronite tomorrow.

    We've seen it before, people! The great prophet, Ed Wood, has already warned us.

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    I confess that I skimmed through those 30 pages in gzhpcu's related link/thread. Did not see this question asked and perhaps someone here knows - Do nuclear reactions such as Hiroshima type atomic bombs occur in nature? From my limited scope in astrophysics it doesn't seem so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Do nuclear reactions such as Hiroshima type atomic bombs occur in nature? From my limited scope in astrophysics it doesn't seem so?
    Natural nuclear fission reactions are believed to occur in certain uranium ore deposits (wikipedia). But it is much more like a natural nuclear reactor, and not a nuclear bomb.

    I can't imagine circumstance where anything like a natural nuclear bomb could occur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I can't imagine circumstance where anything like a natural nuclear bomb could occur.
    Yeah, I can't imagine it happening. First, you have to have highly enriched fissile material, which isn't likely to occur anywhere, in a certain configuration (two subcritical masses separated), which is also unlikely, and then have to have a timed explosion to drive them together, which would be extremely unlikely to happen to happen.
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    Thank you both for confirming that. We keep finding that the universe can create exotic environments but making concentrated plutonium or U-235 doesn't appear to be in the mix, much less creating specific conditions for a mass detonation as Jens points out. If there are ETs looking for an artificial signal (as we are doing from Earth via SETI) then an atomic fission/detonation could be a "squirrel" to draw attention to ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Thank you both for confirming that. We keep finding that the universe can create exotic environments but making concentrated plutonium or U-235 doesn't appear to be in the mix, much less creating specific conditions for a mass detonation as Jens points out. If there are ETs looking for an artificial signal (as we are doing from Earth via SETI) then an atomic fission/detonation could be a "squirrel" to draw attention to ourselves.
    They'd need to be here already, if they're going to detect the effect of our nuclear weapons.

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    Yes, if they were already here then no doubt they'd take notice immediately assuming that we've been under observation for some time now. What I was implying is that an artificially generated fission/detonation might be detectable from nearby star systems if their search technology is that far advanced.

    BTW, if there are ETs who are monitoring other worlds that have complex life forms then it must be very rare where they find one situated in a time window that's on the technological level of space travel and/or possible self destruction. We would surely be an interesting case study at this specific point in our evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Yes, if they were already here then no doubt they'd take notice immediately assuming that we've been under observation for some time now. What I was implying is that an artificially generated fission/detonation might be detectable from nearby star systems if their search technology is that far advanced.
    Here is an article from The Atlantic about what it would take to observe nuclear explosions in another solar system.

    In July, Stevens, Forgan, and James published a paper that asked what a distant, “self-destructive civilization” might look like through the business end of a telescope. To do so, they gamed out several dystopian science fiction scenarios in great detail. They calculated the brightness of the gamma rays that would flash out from a massive exchange of nuclear weapons. They asked themselves what would happen if an engineered pathogen ripped through a large population of human-sized animals. What gases would fill a planet’s atmosphere, if its surface were strewn with rotting corpses? And would those gases be detectable across interstellar distances?
    But she also urged caution. “The problem is the signatures are detectable for cosmically insignificant amounts of time,” she said. Distant stars burn for billions of years, sending a constant stream of light toward Earth, but the flash from a nuclear war may last only a few days. To catch its light, you have to have impeccable timing.
    My take on this is that if one was looking at exactly the right planet at the right moment in time, one might catch a massive nuclear exchange. But a single nuclear explosion is not going to be detectable from interstellar distances, unless there is a magical technology far beyond what we can imagine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Yes, if they were already here then no doubt they'd take notice immediately assuming that we've been under observation for some time now. What I was implying is that an artificially generated fission/detonation might be detectable from nearby star systems if their search technology is that far advanced.
    Yes, I know. What I was implying is that our nuclear weapons tests are very unlikely to be detectible at interstellar distances. A few extra gamma ray photons coming from the direction of the solar system at some given moment are not going to sound alarm bells at Space Brother Headquarters.

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    That's why you'd put an autonomous 'Sentinel' probe on the Moon to flag this sort of thing up.
    A bit like a fire alarm. You probably couldn't get insurance without one.

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    Thx Grant & Swift for the replies (even though this isn't my thread)....I wonder if Grant Hatch found any answers that he was seeking in this or gzhpcu's attached link/thread?
    eburacum45, If ET found our world interesting enough then they should have a "manned" post on the moon or perhaps somewhere on the planet. Of course there could be other places much more interesting, but seeing as how we are at a technological crossroads of sorts we may be at present the best game in town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eburacum45 View Post
    That's why you'd put an autonomous 'Sentinel' probe on the Moon to flag this sort of thing up.
    A bit like a fire alarm. You probably couldn't get insurance without one.
    Spacedude,

    In case you didn't get the reference, eburacum45 is referencing an Arthur C. Clarke short story called "The Sentinel", about such a thing. It is the short story upon which the longer novel and movie "2001" was based on.
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    Thanks Swift, yes "Sentinel" went over my head as to the 2001 reference. I see now that Eburacum45 meant it would have been planted on the moon long before the advent of man just waiting to be activated.

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    Actually, I do not think they would be particularly interested in us, but to exploit the resources of our planet, as I believe Stephen Hawking once stated. So, no sentinels needed, just the sight of our lovely planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    Actually, I do not think they would be particularly interested in us, but to exploit the resources of our planet, as I believe Stephen Hawking once stated. So, no sentinels needed, just the sight of our lovely planet.
    I find it hard to believe that they would be interested in the earth as a source of resources. I mean, we ourselves are concerned about the resources we have. I'm sure there would be lots of other places to find things. As far as the elements are concerned, I don't think there's anything on earth that isn't found elsewhere, and as far as compounds or minerals, I assume that an ET race that has the power to efficiently get rid of us and exploit our resources would also have knowledge of chemistry and would be able to synthesize what they need. We ourselves can recreate gemstones, for example, since after all all the things we have were created by natural processes so all you need to do is replicate those processes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I find it hard to believe that they would be interested in the earth as a source of resources.
    Most of the elemental resources on Earth's crust would be replicated in the asteroids, and they would be easier to access, since you don't have to drag them off the surface of a planet.

    One class of resources that is abundant on Earth and apparently rare elsewhere is organic and biological compounds; but since an alien species is likely to have a different biochemistry to our own, I'm puzzled about how useful those compounds would be for them.

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    Just because Hawking said it, doesn't make it any more true. Hawking may have been an expert on black holes, but that doesn't mean he knows anything about the behavior of hypothetical aliens.
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    Hopefully Hawking is wrong and that if hostile ETs were going to invade, take over, or eliminate us that it would have been already accomplished long ago. It could be that hostile civilizations self destruct earlier and more easily than say more civil ones. If any "civil" ETs know about our planet and really aren't that interested in us then they may just use the Earth as a way station on their travels.

    One class of resources that is abundant on Earth and apparently rare elsewhere is organic and biological compounds; but since an alien species is likely to have a different biochemistry to our own, I'm puzzled about how useful those compounds would be for them.
    Perhaps ETs from other "Earth-like" worlds would have enough biological similarities to ours and could be interested in incorporating or harvesting certain advantageous traits on a genetic level which they lack?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Hopefully Hawking is wrong and that if hostile ETs were going to invade, take over, or eliminate us that it would have been already accomplished long ago. It could be that hostile civilizations self destruct earlier and more easily than say more civil ones. If any "civil" ETs know about our planet and really aren't that interested in us then they may just use the Earth as a way station on their travels.



    Perhaps ETs from other "Earth-like" worlds would have enough biological similarities to ours and could be interested in incorporating or harvesting certain advantageous traits on a genetic level which they lack?
    Yes, IF Aliens have been observing us and interfering with our nuclear weapon systems, which I have begun to believe is possible, then I would also have to conclude that it is most likely their interest involves living systems here and not mineral or otherwise common resources. Once mankind achieved the ability to seriously impact the genetic diversity on Earth he may have set off "alarms" and put in motion "protective measures" meant to not only protect us from ourselves but to also protect the other life forms here. Of course it is also possible that the Aliens don't even consider mankind particularly important in comparison to the other life here and are protecting IT from US!

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    If the Space Brothers are keen to protect genetic diversity on Earth, they've been barking up the wrong tree with nuclear weapons systems - we've aleady done serious damage to genetic diversity without the use of a single nuclear weapon in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Yes, IF Aliens have been observing us and interfering with our nuclear weapon systems, which I have begun to believe is possible, then I would also have to conclude that it is most likely their interest involves living systems here and not mineral or otherwise common resources.
    Except there is no evidence that aliens are observing us, or have traveled to Earth, or have acted in anyway, so it doesn't much matter what their motivation may or may not be

    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    If the Space Brothers are keen to protect genetic diversity on Earth, they've been barking up the wrong tree with nuclear weapons systems - we've aleady done serious damage to genetic diversity without the use of a single nuclear weapon in the process.

    Grant Hutchison
    Exactly correct. Land use and our own resource harvesting, pollution, global warming, and many other activities have had dramatic negative impacts on species diversity and habitat destruction; one might argue as much, if not more so, than any likely nuclear exchange (certainly more than that caused by actual nuclear weapon use). I haven't seen these hypothetical aliens doing much about that.
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    If alien life has any similarity to humans, they will be rapacious. The universe is violent.

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