Global warming in 2100

[Jens]

7cscb said there's only one right way to do it, I disagreed. And we both talked about how to appeal to the current leadership. My interpretation was, 7cscb was saying that we should appeal to their reason. My counter view is, get the populace to toss them out on their ears if they don't adopt more effective climate policies.

Though from the part of 7cscb's quote that I quoted, it seems that they were not saying that it was the only way, but a way for people who are not actually deniers.

I also wanted to ask, in post 203, you mentioned "society's masses." Are you referring to me and others like me?

[Noclevername]

Though from the part of 7cscb's quote that I quoted, it seems that they were not saying that it was the only way, but a way for people who are not actually deniers.

7cscb may have started with that, but segued into other areas in later posts. I think I'll wait and let them settle the matter in their own words.

I also wanted to ask, in post 203, you mentioned "society's masses." Are you referring to me and others like me?

Society's masses: The majority of people. It's a pretty standard phrase.

[Jens]

Society's masses: The majority of people. It's a pretty standard phrase.

Sure, I realize. I only asked because it's a phrase I'm a bit sensitive to. In my younger days, when I was a social activist, there were elite Marxist types who would talk of "the masses" not to include themselves, as if they were enlightened and the "masses" needed to be enlightened as well. Nowadays in social movements I think it's more common to say, "it's important to change our society," because then it's clear that you and I are included in it. When you use "the masses" it's a bit unclear as to whether you are including yourself or seeing yourself as above, at least in my mind. But that might just be a way of thinking that comes from my own experience.

[Noclevername]

Sure, I realize. I only asked because it's a phrase I'm a bit sensitive to. In my younger days, when I was a social activist, there were elite Marxist types who would talk of "the masses" not to include themselves, as if they were enlightened and the "masses" needed to be enlightened as well. Nowadays in social movements I think it's more common to say, "it's important to change our society," because then it's clear that you and I are included in it. When you use "the masses" it's a bit unclear as to whether you are including yourself or seeing yourself as above, at least in my mind. But that might just be a way of thinking that comes from my own experience.

I heard from a few wannabe Marxists about "the working class" or "the proletariat", but the phrase "the teeming masses" was used to mean "most people" by most people I knew. Regional? Generational?

I didn't know anyone who wasn't working class proletariat masses when I was growing up, maybe that's it. Self referential?

[Swift]

Folks,

I think we are getting completely derailed. Lets drop the entire discussion of linguistics and socioeconomic struggle and who might have meant what.

We are demonstrating once again why I hate these perpetual threads on complex scientific issues (rather than short and sweetly focused threads on specific aspects of these issues), as they are seemingly doomed to drift and derail. If we can't stay a little more narrowly focused, we'll close this thread.

[profloater]

I think the problem is large because:
A) it is counterintuitive that a couple of degrees warming is so bad, generates extremes and is self accelerating
B) whether democratic or not, systems are poor at withdrawing benefits or controlling population growth
C) not everyone is affected badly or uniformly. Viz the water problems in India coming from monsoon changes.
So, sorry to say, it has to get worse before it gets better and worse might be too late for many people. I note the use of energy has increased because of weather extremes. Feedback loops going the wrong way.

[Noclevername]

I note the use of energy has increased because of weather extremes. Feedback loops going the wrong way.

Cite?

[profloater]

Cite?

From the FT a BPReport
Add to myFT
Extreme weather sends energy demand growth to 9-year high

BP warns of ‘vicious cycle’ as use of heating and cooling systems boosts emissions

[publiusr]

I'm hearing a lot about Peter Langdon Ward, who doubts the whole idea of a greenhouse effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Langdon_Ward
https://whyclimatechanges.com/impossible/

The thing is--if he is right, then how do the ISS radiators work in a vacuum?

[Noclevername]

From the FT a BPReport
Add to myFT
Extreme weather sends energy demand growth to 9-year high

BP warns of ‘vicious cycle’ as use of heating and cooling systems boosts emissions

What's FT and BPR?

Also, links please?

[profloater]

What's FT and BPR?

Also, links please?

FT is the financial Times which like the BBC carried the BP report, I was not able to link it but if you put the words into a search engine the FT article will come up. BP reported-a 9 year high in energy and thus CO2 emissions due to increased heating and cooling in extreme weather. And that is likely to continue, obviouly that-is in the already high energy use countries with plenty of aircon and heating. The report is recent, I saw it last week.

[Noclevername]

FT is the financial Times which like the BBC carried the BP report, I was not able to link it but if you put the words into a search engine the FT article will come up. BP reported-a 9 year high in energy and thus CO2 emissions due to increased heating and cooling in extreme weather. And that is likely to continue, obviouly that-is in the already high energy use countries with plenty of aircon and heating. The report is recent, I saw it last week.

How sure are "BP" (The oil company?) that the extra power use is directly because of climate? Do they give numbers?

[Jens]

How sure are "BP" (The oil company?) that the extra power use is directly because of climate? Do they give numbers?

Here is a link to a press release with links to the whole report. I haven’t read it, but go ahead if you have time and the inclination.

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corpora...ergy-2019.html