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Thread: Women in Science - food for thought

  1. #121
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    Should we create a new thread? I think this thread is no longer about discrimination against women in science.

  2. #122
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    Has anyone noticed how hard it was for Brad Pitt to get access to his children after divorce. Many divorced men have this trouble where their children are kept from them through many different mechanisms other than the court. Until recently men almost had no ability to fight this. A rich man like Brad Pitt even had a hard struggle for a couple years. https://people.com/movies/angelina-j...ustody-battle/
    The moment an instant lasted forever, we were destined for the leading edge of eternity.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    Again, how men feel about how they are treated is not even allowed to be discussed.
    Well, you seemed to be managing to bang on about it at length without the Thought Police taking you into custody. And I'd bet there isn't a single person here who hasn't heard it all before. So it's hardly some terrible suppressed secret, and it's not remotely being ignored.

    Grant Hutchison
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Radiation_Specialist View Post
    Should we create a new thread? I think this thread is no longer about discrimination against women in science.
    It would be nice if it was, to be honest. Because otherwise the "Look over there at the poor mistreated men!" tactic will have worked. (Ironically, since a complaint I hear from women is that men work every argument around to being about themselves.)

    Grant Hutchison
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    Note:
    During life, we all develop attitudes and strategies to make our interactions with others more pleasant and useful. If I mention mine here, those comments can apply only to myself, my experiences and my situation. Such remarks cannot and should not be construed as dismissing, denigrating, devaluing or criticizing any different attitudes and strategies that other people have evolved as a result of their different situation and different experiences.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It would be nice if it was, to be honest. Because otherwise the "Look over there at the poor mistreated men!" tactic will have worked. (Ironically, since a complaint I hear from women is that men work every argument around to being about themselves.)

    Grant Hutchison
    FYI, I have never been divorced. I do work with mostly women, and most of the divorced women say they wish their exes were not involved in the children's lives at all. The ones who were not involved with their fathers due to gate guarding are angry about how they were excluded from their father.
    I do not deny that men can be ogres and brutes, but I am not blind to the strengths of women and how they use that to their advantage to the hurt of men as well.
    The moment an instant lasted forever, we were destined for the leading edge of eternity.

  6. #126
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    Just in case anyone wonders, I think women are very talented and my NP is female, my cardiologist is female, and my GI doctors is female. I don't have any other doctors. I did not choose based on them being male or female. It is just the way things worked out.
    I like Sabine Hossenfelder because I think she works circles around any man physicist I have seen. I get the feeling that only outsiders really like her.
    The moment an instant lasted forever, we were destined for the leading edge of eternity.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    I do not deny that men can be ogres and brutes, but I am not blind to the strengths of women and how they use that to their advantage to the hurt of men as well.
    But in a thread about the challenges of how to take advantage of women's potential contributions to STEM fields, this argument can easily be interpreted as a logical fallacy. The fallacy is that we shouldn't help women be encouraged to be physicists because sometimes women in power are just as bad as men. That simply isn't a logical position, it is a non sequitur with additional connotations that the way things are either cannot be fixed, or need not be fixed, on the basis of other problems elsewhere. Surely you can see that if this same argument were used effectively when women tried to get the vote, they would still not be voting. Since you agreed that women being able to vote is a societal good, perhaps you should think more about how the arguments you are presenting now disconnect from that position. For example, people may have argued that since men get drafted for war, and women don't, that means women shouldn't vote-- that's more or less what you just said. It might also help to think about how women did get the vote, how society benefitted, and why the effort on the part of the activists who made it happen was neither pointless nor futile.
    Last edited by Ken G; 2018-Dec-09 at 11:32 PM.

  8. #128
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    Im all for voting. I even think felons should vote. I think voting is more accurate for making things better than science is. I think free enterprise is everyday voting which is better than ballot voting.
    The moment an instant lasted forever, we were destined for the leading edge of eternity.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    FYI, I have never been divorced. I do work with mostly women, and most of the divorced women say they wish their exes were not involved in the children's lives at all. The ones who were not involved with their fathers due to gate guarding are angry about how they were excluded from their father.
    I do not deny that men can be ogres and brutes, but I am not blind to the strengths of women and how they use that to their advantage to the hurt of men as well.
    I know this has been touched upon but perhaps it is best that a step back be taken so that you can take the larger picture. The problem I'm seeing from your contribution is that you are personally being implicated. And this doesn't seem to be useful for a debate because it tends to derail the debate towards yourself. Maybe this is a natural reaction for you (which then maybe it is recommended for you to intentionally sit back and listen), but perhaps this is also an intentional behaviour. And if it's the latter. . . well, there's moderators around here.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    More women get bachelors degrees, masters degrees, and doctorate degrees.
    This is actually one of the issues in STEM. Quite a number of women get degrees, which shows that they have an interest, but then as you move up from postdoc to lab leader the number drops off. Obviously some leave because they prefer to concentrate on raising children, but there are many who just find it too difficult to cope with both responsibilities, and that is where it is important to have support systems.
    As above, so below

  11. #131
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    Thread closed due to utter derailment into politics. I don't believe this is salvageable anymore, but if you have a really, really good reason report this post and we might reconsider.
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