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Thread: What do you think is the most likely explanation for the Fermi paradox?

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Really... delusions, pseudoscientific crankdom? Seems your mind is made up.... you are cavalierly dismissing both people you call "cranks", as well as a thoughtful response to the question of the OP
    My views were evidenced in the Wiki links I posted. They were thus anything but 'cavalier dismissals'.
    My answer to the OP question is that the 'Fermi Paradox', itself, arises only because its base unevidenced and unstated assumption of 'civilisation-building intelligent life exists elsewhere' always was nothing more than a (testable) belief in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch
    I think that statistics alone lends credence to the notion that intelligent life besides our own is out there....
    I have no problems with your belief in 'statistics' lending credence to such a notion. Unfortunately, 'credence' doesn't rise to the level of producing objective reality in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch
    My answer to his question is "it's simple", either we aren't looking for ET properly given the vastness of the field and the limits placed on the search, or they aren't ready for "us" to find them.... Or Both... far and near....
    Understood .. and my 'simplest explanation' arises by acknowledging that the FP's unevidenced and unstated assumption of 'civilisation-building intelligent life exists elsewhere' is, and always was, simply a belief in the first place .. so there really isn't any real paradox to answer.
    Whilst science can nonetheless proceed leisurely with testing this as an hypothesis, until positive results are produced, it remains simply as an hypothesis under test (along with all the rest) and there is still no 'scientific truth' beyond Earth's civilisations underpinning it. We don't know anything about the rarity or otherwise of Earth's civilised life beyond the Earth instance.
    I think that's about as fundamental as it gets as far as scientific reasoning (and statistics) goes, no?

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by eburacum45 View Post
    Habitable moons of gas giants would be quite unlike Earth in many ways, such as their rotation characteristics, tides, and high radiation levels in space around the primary.
    But none of those are barriers to life, at least as far as we know. For instance, we are very hopeful that life currently could exist on 2 of those moons right now (Europa and Encaledus), despite them being very different from Earth. So, if the rational here is something like "Once the metalicity gets above a certain point, life isn't possible because of the gas giants", then that is what I am disagreeing with since we are pretty sure that gas giants are actually pretty good places to look for life.

    That might not make the emergence of life impossible, but the resulting species might be very different to the species that have evolved on Earth.
    I'm sure it would be, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    Well hang on no-one has proven that intelligent life can arise on a Jovian moon.

    The only system known to have evolved intelligent life is a possibly atypical planetary system around a relatively uncommon type of star.
    Very true, but I think the scientific consensus is that we are expecting that at least single cell life would be possible on the 2 moons I mentioned above. And so I'm comfortable operating under the assumption that life would be just as common on a gas giant moon as it would be on a terrestrial planet (though whether that makes it common or rare is tbd). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that though.

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hatch View Post
    Why not simply say you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe?
    I'll say it, I think we are the only intelligent life in the universe. I believe this as it's the only solution to the Fermi Paradox that makes sense to me. As you yourself say:

    I think that statistics alone lends credence to the notion that intelligent life besides our own is out there....especially given our relatively late appearance on the scene.
    And so given our late appearance on the scene, that means there has been PLENTY of time for intelligent space faring civilizations to have spread out and colonized every single star in their galaxy. In fact, there's been plenty of time for this to have happened several thousand times over, and we have a few hundred billion galaxies for it to happen in, yet we've never seen a single shred of evidence for this even once.

    Why "we" haven't found evidence of it yet is a far more interesting subject..... clouded by inherent and palpable prejudices in part.....
    How would prejudices "cloud" things to the point that we wouldn't notice a galaxy with zero star light, but MASSIVE infrared signatures to the point that the entire galaxy is glowing in infrared but invisible in all other wavelengths? Or prevent us from seeing a normal galaxy, but with the left 20% of it having disappeared? (These are all examples of what a Dyson Swarm would do.) Yet everywhere we look, we see a universe that looks exactly like it would look if there was no intelligent life present at all. I don't see how someone's prejudices could effect this.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave241 View Post
    But none of those are barriers to life, at least as far as we know. For instance, we are very hopeful that life currently could exist on 2 of those moons right now (Europa and Encaledus), despite them being very different from Earth. So, if the rational here is something like "Once the metalicity gets above a certain point, life isn't possible because of the gas giants", then that is what I am disagreeing with since we are pretty sure that gas giants are actually pretty good places to look for life.



    I'm sure it would be, yes.



    Very true, but I think the scientific consensus is that we are expecting that at least single cell life would be possible on the 2 moons I mentioned above. And so I'm comfortable operating under the assumption that life would be just as common on a gas giant moon as it would be on a terrestrial planet (though whether that makes it common or rare is tbd). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that though.
    We are talking about intelligent and technological life, not just bacteria.

    I am referencing theories on the galactic habitable zone in what I say. The GHZ is the galactic zone within which Earth-like planets could exist, and the extent of the GHZ is governed partially by the metallicity being in the right range. It doesn't take into account habitable gas giant moons, may be it should, but I don't think it does at present.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave241 View Post
    I'll say it, I think we are the only intelligent life in the universe. I believe this as it's the only solution to the Fermi Paradox that makes sense to me. As you yourself say:
    .
    This is pretty much my position as well. Other explanations are possible but they all have difficulties.
    It's possible the universe, contrary to expectations, has only just become habitable very recently, and so we are one of the first on the scene. This theory also makes sense, or it would do if people could think of a reason the universe was not conducive to intelligent life before this point.

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