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Thread: If you were on the moon...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    My objections are that a camera was not pointed at earth during a two-way conversation between worlds.
    As has been pointed out to you several times, there were cameras pointed at Earth repeatedly during the 6 lunar landings. You have yet to explain why the many still photos are not acceptable to you.

    People here seem totally blasé about being on the moon
    I'd suggest that no-one who has studied the Apollo project is blasé about what was achieved. Least of all the people who actually went, at the expense of billions of taxpayer dollars, the work of hundreds of thousands of people and the lives of a number of their friends and colleagues. They had a job to do and there was immense risk in what they were doing. They weren't on a sightseeing trip to Yosemite.

    with a disinterest in taking in the view of earth from the surface and filming it for any length of time.
    I previously asked (and you evidently ignored) whether you knew what cameras were taken on the missions, what their purpose was and their capabilities. I'd suggest you do not, or this misapprehension of yours would not exist.

    It matters not what one's training is, for it would rank as a mind-blowing, spiritual experience no matter what.
    And many of the astronauts who went came back deeply affected by their experiences. Alan Bean spent much of his life as an artist trying to recapture the experiences he had undergone.

    I think folk just want to dismiss my notion just because it's in the Conspiracy section and they don't want to be seen erring.
    I can't speak for others, but I'm dismissing it because it's a serious "If I ran the zoo" fallacy. It's frankly absurd to dismiss the entire mountain of coherent evidence regarding the Apollo missions because you something didn't happen exactly the way you think it should have.

    And that YouTube link of Apollo 17...the video was not taken from the surface of the moon.
    Not the section at 37:14 that was originally pointed out to you. That was footage from the lunar rover in its final parking spot, remote controlled by Ed Fendell from Houston.

    Anyway, what of all the other missions?
    There's pics and footage of the Earth from Earth orbit, the TLC, lunar orbit and (yes) the lunar surface from all of them. I suggest you actually spend some time looking through the freely available archives and see for yourself.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    No, but you wish.

    I said "And that YouTube link of Apollo 17...the video was not taken from the surface of the moon. Anyway, what of all the other missions?"
    No, as Superluminal pointed out, at about 37:14 of this video:

    https://youtu.be/SQOEC9gHpmA?t=2234

    you see the Earth as viewed from the LRV mast mounted camera (on the surface of the Moon, obviously). There's your footage. Now, will you accept the landing or will you move the goalposts?

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    My objections are that a camera was not pointed at earth during a two-way conversation between worlds. People here seem totally blasé about being on the moon with a disinterest in taking in the view of earth from the surface and filming it for any length of time. It matters not what one's training is, for it would rank as a mind-blowing, spiritual experience no matter what. I think folk just want to dismiss my notion just because it's in the Conspiracy section and they don't want to be seen erring.

    And that YouTube link of Apollo 17...the video was not taken from the surface of the moon. Anyway, what of all the other missions?
    Many of the astronauts did become more religious after their flight. Jim Irwin, Apollo 15, actually went looking for Noah's Ark.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Agreed. And I certainly wouldn't be worrying about what uneducated people decades later thought I should be doing instead.
    Probably, but I would be careful about equating "uneducated" people with having strange ideas. I know people who have more education than I do (like PhDs) who have (in my view) ludicrous views, like that ancient astronauts visited the earth and built the pyramids), and I also know people with lesser education that I do who have very normal views.
    As above, so below

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Really. I see many replies here as disingenuous. So you are on the moon; the earth looms large in the sky. And yet none of you would consider taking in, at length, the awe-inspiring sight of looking back at the planet you left, a blue and white world teeming with life hanging in the dark void all around you.

    Too busy? On a mission? Got to collect rocks?

    Nonsense.
    No, it's not nonsense at all. As somebody else said, they were not sightseeing trips. They were missions, choreographed and trained for, and the things like playing golf and riding on buggies were scripted beforehand and decided by the mission planners; they were not spontaneous happenings. Considering the time limitations and weight limitations, there would be decisions on who was going to take what photos when. And sure, some astronauts might have gone off-script, but not all and not always.
    As above, so below

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Too busy? On a mission? Got to collect rocks?

    Nonsense.
    By the way - those rocks that you dismiss so contemptuously? They have been used by scientists around the world over the past (nearly) 50 years to establish how the moon was formed and added immeasurably to our knowledge of the early history of the solar system.

    Poorly resolved & over-saturated film footage of the Earth from the lunar surface may have been of passing interest (although completely lack the visceral awe of, say, the Apollo 8 Earthrise images), but in terms of scientific value, it's chalk and cheese. It's no contest as to which was the more valuable to return, regardless of what you think.
    Last edited by AGN Fuel; 2019-Mar-17 at 01:58 AM.

  7. #37
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    Last edited by Van Rijn; 2019-Mar-17 at 03:24 AM.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    I think folk just want to dismiss my notion just because it's in the Conspiracy section and they don't want to be seen erring.
    ok I know what you mean; it would most likely be a spiritual experience for most people, to see the small planet that they came from set against the rest of the universe, but then that would be a private moment....a camera might not come into it in their mind, like the time I actually had a camera and saw a very beautiful sunrise, and I thought shall I take a picture, but then I do think that that can spoil the moment.
    ................................

  9. #39
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    one technical question(to the people here): how bright would the Earth have appeared to the astronauts as they walked around on the Moon's surface? They had visors that reduced sunlight, from the surroundings that were light by the direct sun, and that must have been very bright, and with their visors on maybe the Earth would not look at all bright to them personally..?
    ................................

  10. #40
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    "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    gunzlepug

    You've played these games before and we're not going to tolerate it. You will directly answer every single question about the landings on the Moon (you can ignore the silly posts about what posters would do if they were there) or you will be given a long suspension.

    And if you just walk away from this thread, you will be suspended.
    Okay, that would be more convenient. I am not answering leading, off-topic questions for everyone's delectation, gang mentality and amusement.
    "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That photo IS a collage, and nobody at NASA ever claimed it was a real scene or even made this composite. Do you know the source of this composite picture? It might surprise you... It does exactly nothing to prove your case, in contrary. Now the photo's Van Rijn linked, which have an actual NASA photo number, how will you explain those? They are not edited.

    But anyway, I see your goalposts are moving all over the place and you do not really go into the evidence we do provide:
    -first you say there is no video. We say there are pictures and video.
    -We show you video FROM THE SURFACE OF THE MOON, you claim it's not from the surface of the moon without any further argument and happily ignore it from then on.
    -We show you pictures from the moon, you reply with an edited photo as if it were to say something about the unedited photos we linked.

    So where are your goalposts now? They were at "it doesn't exist", now they are at "photos are false and that video, well, I'll just say no."

    Any serious argument against the video and pictures posted here?
    Last edited by Nicolas; 2019-Mar-17 at 01:59 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    ...what would be one thing you'd be certain to do?

    Look back in awe at the big ball earth of course. And yet did any of the Apollo astronauts take video film of the earth from the surface of moon? If so please would you provide a link? Thank you.

    Given no such footage was taken, I'd assert that no man set foot on the moon at all.
    This looks like the fallacy of argument from incredulity. The argument appears to be based on an assumption that the astronauts would have reacted the same way you think you would have had you been there. Not very scientific in my opinion.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Probably, but I would be careful about equating "uneducated" people with having strange ideas. I know people who have more education than I do (like PhDs) who have (in my view) ludicrous views, like that ancient astronauts visited the earth and built the pyramids), and I also know people with lesser education that I do who have very normal views.
    I don't mean uneducated in general. I mean specifically about Apollo. And I used the term advisedly, because I also don't think people who are ignorant of the Apollo record are stupid or (for obvious reasons) mentally ill. In most cases (a few others stand out, I admit), I think they just don't know anything about Apollo. Certainly they never know as much about it as they think they do.
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  15. #45
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    Apparently Gene Cernan gave it some thought, and found the view awe-inspiring.

    Imagine sitting on a soft swing on God’s front porch,” he describes of his travels 250,000 miles from our planet. “Looking back at the Earth and its beauty – the blues of the oceans, the whites of the snow and clouds, surrounded by the blackest black you can conceive in your mind with thousands and thousands of stars – it was just absolutely incredible.

  16. #46
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    Maybe it's a generational thing: taking up an experience with your eyes and mind instead of recording it (just look around you at a concert...). And as shown in this thread: apart from taking it up in person, they did record their moonly activities at length (LOADS of photos were taking), including the occasional earth occurrence in the photo's and videos. The astronauts were also smart enough to know earth wouldn't look like much in the videos using that camera anyway.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Okay, that would be more convenient. I am not answering leading, off-topic questions for everyone's delectation, gang mentality and amusement.
    Hello gunzlepug. Will you at least admit you were wrong about video footage of the Earth from the surface of the moon? That is the topic you discussed in your OP, after all, and video footage has been shown. If you can’t admit that much, it’s unclear to me why you even bother to post here.

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  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    Maybe it's a generational thing: taking up an experience with your eyes and mind instead of recording it (just look around you at a concert...).
    Perhaps. I have actually been at a few events where I thought to myself, "Look at these idiots watching through their little phone screens instead of directly."

    I will note that it has been pointed out that the intentional video of the Earth from the surface of the moon was done-so by the rover via remote control.
    It is almost as if they are saying, "Well, our work here is done, what else is there to do while we still have power? Let's pan around a few times, look at the Earth, ..."
    Given the video quality of the day, I can see why.

    Oh, and what might someone do upon first arriving on the moon? How about taking Communion and thanking his God for the opportunity?
    My understanding is that a certain Dr. Aldrin did exactly that.
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  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Okay, that would be more convenient. I am not answering leading, off-topic questions for everyone's delectation, gang mentality and amusement.
    No, no, and a lot more no.

    First: don't argue with moderating in the thread. "But I'm not arguing!".. Yes, you are, discussing by twisting "silly posts about what posters would do if they were there" into "leading, off-topic questions for everyone's delectation, gang mentality and amusement".

    Secondly: still no answers to any questions (not about what posters would do if they were there). You do not get to choose which questions you answer and which you do not. You chose to post in this forum, there are enough warnings and explanations of what is required of you here.

    Third: these two offenses are exactly the same as the ones you were suspended for last time. It should not surprise you that once again this will lead to a suspension.
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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    Maybe it's a generational thing: taking up an experience with your eyes and mind instead of recording it (just look around you at a concert...). And as shown in this thread: apart from taking it up in person, they did record their moonly activities at length (LOADS of photos were taking), including the occasional earth occurrence in the photo's and videos. The astronauts were also smart enough to know earth wouldn't look like much in the videos using that camera anyway.
    I wonder when we'll have a CTer post that the astronauts didn't land on the Moon because Neil and Buzz didn't do a selfie.
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  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I wonder when we'll have a CTer post that the astronauts didn't land on the Moon because Neil and Buzz didn't do a selfie.
    I mean, Neil took a pic of Buzz with himself visible in Buzz’s helmet, that’s kind of like a mirror-selfie.
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    I mean, Neil took a pic of Buzz with himself visible in Buzz’s helmet, that’s kind of like a mirror-selfie.
    You beat me to that, and others A12, A17 come to mind.

  23. #53
    If I were on the moon
    It'd be hard not to swoon
    All alone
    Far from home
    Not e'en a cheery tune

  24. #54
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    Repeating for emphasis to all:


    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I assume gunzlepug is serious, so I expect only serious posts in this thread.



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  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunzlepug View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Seriously, really?

    Do please tell us which NASA site you found this on, and where anyone from NASA has ever claimed that this is a genuine Apollo 11 image instead of a very obvious and very poor Apollo 11-Apollo 8 composite done either for fun or to be deliberately deceptive.

    What you're trying here is a very tedious and often tried conspiracy theorist trick of declaring a set of goalposts you don't have the right to fix in the (very much mistaken) belief that what you are slyly trying to demand doesn't exist.

    Apollo astronauts repeatedly commented on and photographed the Earth from the lunar surface, and all of the missions where there was a lunar rover mounted TV camera (controlled by someone who wasn't as busy as the astronauts) filmed Earth.

    Apollo 16 and 17's TV views of Earth from the surface were clear enough to show details of weather formations that can be verified by meteorological satellite images, as are the Hasselblad images taken on all of the missions either in lunar orbit or on the surface.

    http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/CATM/ch4/page68.html

    Feel free to demonstrate that this is not the case.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onebigmonkey View Post
    Seriously, really?

    Do please tell us which NASA site you found this on, and where anyone from NASA has ever claimed that this is a genuine Apollo 11 image instead of a very obvious and very poor Apollo 11-Apollo 8 composite done either for fun or to be deliberately deceptive.[...]
    I think I found the original source, and to describe it as deliberately deceptive would be a disservice to the person who created the composite (and who explicitly stated that Photoshop was used). (And just to be clear: I'm not saying you are calling it deliberately deceptive.)
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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    I think I found the original source, and to describe it as deliberately deceptive would be a disservice to the person who created the composite (and who explicitly stated that Photoshop was used). (And just to be clear: I'm not saying you are calling it deliberately deceptive.)
    No problem - I get your meaning entirely. I have, however, seen it reproduced many times on conspiracy threads as proof of something or other, but couldn't recall precisely whether it was originally intended for amusement or the other thing

    Either way, gunzlepug's intended use of it is clear.

  28. #58
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    This particular 'if I ran the zoo' argument always confuses the hell out of me. If I was on the Moon, a place where no human foot had ever stepped, with new and exciting questions to be answered by being there, I'd be looking at the damn moon at my feet. I'd have been looking at the Earth on the way out, and I know I'd have plenty of time to look at it on the way back, and in any case looking is all I could do, and that won't hold my attention for more than a minute or two. On the other hand I can walk around, collect soil, collect rocks, dig about, jump around and enjoy the low gravity.... So yeah, in those hours while I am on the surface of the Moon I won't be spending huge amounts of time looking back at where I'd been, because where I was right then would be far more interesting.
    Last edited by Jason Thompson; 2019-Mar-23 at 08:31 PM.

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    Ya know, I remember taking a trip to Moab a few years ago and while there we had a Lunar eclipse happen. It was really interesting, and I remember looking at it for a while. I did not take any pictures of it though, despite having a camera in my pocket at the time and it being a sight seeing trip where I took lots of pictures of the place I traveled to. According to gunzlepug, that means my trip to Moab never happened and I am currently lying about it. Even though I have plenty of other pictures of it to document my trip and probably still have the hat I purchased in the gift shop lying around my house somewhere, since I didn't bother to take a picture of the moon that by itself proves my fraud. Right? Is there anything more to your objection then this, or is this the entirety of it gunzlepug?

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