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Thread: NASA's moon mission - ARTEMIS

  1. #61
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    Without getting too political, what NASA should do, and what they are told to do often diverge.


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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Congress might provide more funds if China keeps to their current plans - A Mars mission this year, start the construction of their space station and successfully complete the Chang'e 5 mission.
    They haven't launched a Taikonaut since 2016 and honestly unmanned probes are not going to prompt any major push by the USA. I suspect a Chinese moon landing is like the US Mars missions that always seem to be a decade away.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    They haven't launched a Taikonaut since 2016 and honestly unmanned probes are not going to prompt any major push by the USA. I suspect a Chinese moon landing is like the US Mars missions that always seem to be a decade away.
    Once the 1st module of their space station is launched, we will see China launch their Taikonouts. Their manned moon landing is targeted for late 2020s/early 2030s. It needs the LM 9. No race with USA.
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  4. #64
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    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Mar-11 at 02:41 PM.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Once the 1st module of their space station is launched, we will see China launch their Taikonouts. Their manned moon landing is targeted for late 2020s/early 2030s. It needs the LM 9. No race with USA.
    Yeah, China's paper plans for a moon landing are certainly not going to motivate the USA to step up their game.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    The article at spaceflight now includes this quote a previous AIG report:

    In an October 2018 audit, the OIG blamed most of the delays to date on “management, technical and infrastructure issues driven mostly by Boeing’s poor performance.” While Boeing and the other major SLS contractors have implemented changes to improve performance, the OIG said Tuesday NASA “continues to struggle managing SLS program costs and schedule.”
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/03/1...inue-to-climb/

    Given everything that's happened with Boeing in the last two years I can't see how anyone could have any confidence in those 'changes to improve performance'. The only bright spot I see is that there are commercial vehicles in development that might be able to take up the slack if it turns out there's some major fault with the SLS that Boeing have failed to find/disclose.

  7. #67
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    At last we have NASA's plans for the moon presented to the National Space Council.

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/welcome...mis-base-camp/

    NASA has scripted a 21st Century plan for sustained human presence on the Moon.

    In a report to the National Space Council, NASA’s Artemis program sets the stage for a sustained lunar surface presence. To do this, the report calls for development of an Artemis Base Camp at the South Pole of the Moon.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    At last we have NASA's plans for the moon presented to the National Space Council.

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/welcome...mis-base-camp/
    The time to get excited will be when Congress approves a plan and gives it a budget, ATM this is just another in a long line of NASA Powerpoint presentations.

  9. #69
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    "NASA advisers skeptical of agency’s ability to meet 2024 lunar landing goal"

    https://spacenews.com/nasa-advisers-...-landing-goal/

    Members of a NASA advisory committee expressed doubts that the agency can return humans to the moon by 2024 as currently planned, as well as concerns about the approach the agency is using to develop lunar landers.

    At the conclusion of a two-day meeting May 14 of the NASA Advisory Council’s Human Exploration and Operations Committee, some members said they didn’t think NASA would be able to achieve the goal of a 2024 lunar landing given the progress the agency had made so far and the experience from the Apollo program more than half a century ago.

    Among the most strident critics was Tommy Holloway, a former NASA space shuttle and International Space Station program manager. During committee discussion about potential findings and recommendations, he said he didn’t think the Human Landing System (HLS) program could develop landers in time to take astronauts to the lunar surface in 2024.
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  10. #70
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    Given NASA's recent fumbling of the whole system including Congress's meddling, it sure looks to me that their plan is a no-go even for 2024. This sure sad, but perhaps SpaceX will land, but they have to develop a lander and I don't see anywhere that plans exist.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Given NASA's recent fumbling of the whole system including Congress's meddling, it sure looks to me that their plan is a no-go even for 2024.
    A landing that soon, given where we are now, has always been a longshot, at least without making it a national priority. On the other hand, the work NASA has been doing lately feels a lot more serious to me than prior “back to the moon” paper studies.

    This sure sad, but perhaps SpaceX will land, but they have to develop a lander and I don't see anywhere that plans exist.
    They are working on it now in Texas. Their plan has long been to land a Starship variant, and NASA is paying them a bit to work on that. I doubt they would be ready that quickly, but they definitely have the plans and are working on it.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    A landing that soon, given where we are now, has always been a longshot, at least without making it a national priority. On the other hand, the work NASA has been doing lately feels a lot more serious to me than prior “back to the moon” paper studies.



    They are working on it now in Texas. Their plan has long been to land a Starship variant, and NASA is paying them a bit to work on that. I doubt they would be ready that quickly, but they definitely have the plans and are working on it.
    I think the fact that the lander program is being handled on a competitive basis rather than being simply another cost-plus contract handed out to the company with the most lobbying power is the clearest sign that NASA is trying to get some real progress made.

  13. #73
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    I also like the Dynetics lander—but look for Blue Origin to play a role as well...some think that Bezos might be the first to be worth a trillion dollars.

    If that is so, he could afford to have a re-usable HLLV made out of pure Iconel or something...

  14. #74
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    And to pay his employees a living wage...
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

  15. #75
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    NASA’s next giant leaps for the moon.

    https://spacenews.com/nasas-next-giant-leaps/

    In about four and a half years, NASA envisions a lunar lander touching down near the south pole of the moon. Two astronauts will exit the lander’s crew module and go down a few steps to be the first humans on the lunar surface since 1972. Or, they’ll make their way down a much longer ladder to the surface. Or maybe just take an elevator.

    NASA looked to tap into the creativity of the private sector with its Human Landing System (HLS) program to develop the landers needed for the Artemis program. Rather than use a conventional contracting approach and pick a single company to develop a lander under a cost-plus contract, it offered multiple fixed-price awards to companies that would develop landers though public-private partnerships, with NASA eventually being one of potentially several customers for them.

    “This is the last piece that we need to get to the moon, and now we’re going to have that under development,” NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said during an April 30 teleconference where he announced the winning companies. “Today, we’re going under contract with three companies that are going to take us all the way to the moon.”
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  16. #76
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    "NASA seeks input on Artemis science goals"

    https://spacenews.com/nasa-seeks-inp...science-goals/

    NASA is seeking ideas from scientists on the research astronauts could carry out on the first Artemis lunar landing mission in 2024.

    NASA announced Aug. 21 it seeking brief white papers on the science the astronauts on the Artemis 3 mission can carry out. The papers, no more than two pages long, are due to the agency by Sept. 8.

    The papers will support work by a science definition team in NASA’s Science Mission Directorate to develop science objectives for the Artemis 3 mission. That team will also use a number of other resources, ranging from the planetary science decadal survey to a “roadmap” for lunar science created by an advisory group, the Lunar Exploration Analysis Group.
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  17. #77
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    "Report sees ways Artemis supports sustainable human Mars exploration"

    https://spacenews.com/report-sees-wa...s-exploration/

    NASA’s Artemis program of human lunar exploration can help pave the way for human Mars missions, according to a new report, although some tweaks to those plans may be required.

    The report, released by the space exploration advocacy group Explore Mars during its virtual Humans to Mars Summit, is based on a workshop held last November that brought together representatives of NASA, industry and academia to explore approaches for affordable human exploration of Mars.

    The workshop identified 85 activities or functions associated with human Mars exploration, ranging from human health to landing technologies and surface systems. A “significant” number of them can benefit from the Artemis program or ongoing research on the International Space Station, the report concluded.
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  18. #78
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    The fundamental issue is that all of these lofty goals are arbitrarily tied to the SLS, a rocket that hasn't completed a test flight yet and if it does limp into service each launch is estimated to cost as much as $2 Billion.

  19. #79
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    "NASA publishes Artemis plan to return Americans to Moon in 2024"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA..._2024_999.html

    Following a series of critical contract awards and hardware milestones, NASA has shared an update on its Artemis program, including the latest Phase 1 plans to land the first woman and the next man on the surface of the Moon in 2024.

    In the 18 months since NASA accepted a bold challenge to accelerate its exploration plans by more than four years and establish sustainable exploration by the end of the decade, the agency has continued to gain momentum toward sending humans to the Moon again for the first time since the last Apollo lunar mission in 1972.

    "With bipartisan support from Congress, our 21st century push to the Moon is well within America's reach," said NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine. "As we've solidified more of our exploration plans in recent months, we've continued to refine our budget and architecture. We're going back to the Moon for scientific discovery, economic benefits, and inspiration for a new a generation of explorers. As we build up a sustainable presence, we're also building momentum toward those first human steps on the Red Planet."

    In its formal plan, NASA captures Artemis progress to date, identifying the key science, technology and human missions, as well as the commercial and international partnerships that will ensure we continue to lead in exploration and achieve our ambitious goal to land astronauts on the Moon.

    The agency's powerful new rocket, the Space Launch System (SLS), and the Orion spacecraft are closer than ever to their first integrated launch. The spacecraft is complete while the core stage and its attached four engines are undergoing a final series of tests that will culminate in a critical hot fire test this fall.
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  20. #80
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    And the cost of doing the above $28 billion

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA...llion_999.html

    NASA on Monday revealed its latest plan to return astronauts to the Moon in 2024, and estimated the cost of meeting that deadline at $28 billion, $16 billion of which would be spent on the lunar landing module.

    Congress, which faces elections on November 3, will have to sign off on the financing for a project that has been set by President Donald Trump as a top priority. The $28 billion would cover the budgetary years of 2021-25.
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  21. #81
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    And the entire SLS mission will be filmed. From a Starship. On the surface of the moon.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  22. #82
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    In support of the US Moon mission, Japan has asked their government far an additional $760 million to develop a moon lander.

    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13756702

    Budget requests like these only come along once in a blue moon.

    The science and technology ministry’s budget request for the next fiscal year will include an ask for some 80 billion yen ($760 million) to develop key equipment for a U.S.-led, manned lunar exploration mission.

    The ministry, which also oversees sports, culture and education, is aiming to accelerate the development of a new unmanned supply spacecraft, a life-support machine and other related equipment to help enable Japanese astronauts to land on the moon.

    As a result of the mission, the annual budget for the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency is expected to rocket toward a record-high level of 280 billion yen.
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  23. #83
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    Italy joins the Artemis program

    Google Translated...

    https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_...6a04ebd3.shtml

    There is an agreement with NASA, Italy on a mission to the Moon

    Agreement signed: Rome will invest over 1 billion euros. The project of building the first colony on the satellite


    The Moon is also getting closer to Italy. An agreement of intent signed yesterday live in Rome and Washington leads to the goal of returning to our natural satellite, namely the construction of the first lunar colony. Thus specifies the document signed by NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine and Riccardo Fraccaro, undersecretary of the Prime Minister with responsibility for aerospace policies. Our national scientists and industries will be involved in three directions. The first concerns collaboration in the construction of the house-laboratory in which the astronauts will live and in the development of technologies to ensure the carrying out of the missions. The second commitment concerns the research that can be carried out at the base involving scientists from various disciplines, from biology to astronomy. All exploration and research activities will require a sophisticated communication network capable of allowing a constant connection with the Earth by transferring large amounts of data.

    Artemis program

    All this is part of the Artemis Programthat NASA has started to return to the moon with a woman and a man in 2024. But it will only be the first step to arrive at a stable settlement 4 years later. Meanwhile, the lunar space station Gateway will also be built to facilitate operations in which Japan, Canada, Europe and (soon) Russia already participate. All this will bring work to our industries which will carry out the various parts by developing innovations capable of guaranteeing the survival of the astronauts - explains Fraccaro -. The government expects an investment of over 1 billion, setting in motion an economic return that will go well beyond. The aim is to involve, in addition to the large companies already involved in the sector, other medium-small companies that until now have never thought of working for space but given their skills they can find ways of development on the lunar border.
    >
    >

  24. #84
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    "US faces tight timeline for 2024 moon landing, NASA chief tells Senate"

    https://www.space.com/nasa-moon02024...ing-nasa-chief

    NASA needs to have a new lunar lander and giant rocket ready by next year in order to return astronauts to the moon by 2024, the space agency's chief Jim Bridenstine told Congress Wednesday (Sept. 23).

    In a Senate appropriations committee hearing, Bridenstine said NASA aims to send an uncrewed mission, called Artemis 1, around the moon in November 2021 to prepare for the first orbital mission with astronauts two years later, Artemis 2. The Artemis 3 mission would follow, sending astronauts to the south pole of the moon in 2024.

    Bridenstine said he is worried about the effects on the Artemis program if any of the missions are delayed which could happen for technical or funding reasons.

    "If that Artemis [1] mission pushes too far from 2021, if it starts to encroach on Artemis 2 in 2023, it creates a crescendo where if one [mission] starts getting pushed, the others start getting pushed," Bridenstine said in the livestreamed broadcast.
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  25. #85
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    More information on the budget request for NASA. Most critical - "an appropriation by February next year" to make the 2024 deadline fpe landing on the moon.

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA..._says_999.html

    Congress must approve more funding for NASA's Artemis moon program in the next few months if a 2024 landing is to occur, agency administrator Jim Bridenstine testified Wednesday.

    "If we get to February of 2021 without an appropriation, that's going to really put the brakes on our ability to achieve a moon landing by as early as 2024," Bridenstine told members of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation committee in Washington, D.C.

    The space agency seeks more than $7 billion for Artemis in the current fiscal year, which begins Thursday, and nearly $28 billion through 2025. The House of Representatives has approved a bill for the new fiscal year that cut billions from NASA's request.
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  26. #86
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    "LunaNet: NASA Blueprints Internet-like Needs for Moon Exploration"

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/lunanet...n-exploration/

    NASA is starting to define an Internet-like architecture, known as LunaNet, detailing needed space communications relay and navigation services to support the space agency’s Artemis program and its planned missions to the Moon.

    LunaNet would involve position, navigation, and timing (PNT) services in support of lunar missions.

    Conceptually, the LunaNet architecture embodies three types of networks: the lunar relay network, the lunar surface network, and the Earth network.
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  27. #87
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    "The International Artemis Alliance to return to the moon takes shape"

    https://thehill.com/opinion/technolo...on-takes-shape

    A recent piece in Space News noted that NASA has signed an agreement with Italy for that country to participate in the Artemis return-to-the-moon program. While the details of that participation are yet to be formalized, one story in an Italian publication suggested that Italy will invest a billion euros in the undertaking.

    Italy joins Japan, Australia, Canada and the European Union in what is shaping up to be a NASA-led Artemis Alliance to return humans to the moon for the first time since 1972 to build a “lunar base camp” at the moon’s south pole. Astronauts will conduct science and enable commerce on Earth’s nearest neighbor as well as test technologies and practice techniques for a human mission to Mars.

    The international partners are providing a great deal of value to the Artemis program. Japan, for example, will develop a pressurized rover that astronauts will use for long-distance excursions. Australia may include “adapting technologies in remote operations and mining for use in lunar missions.” Canada will provide a version of its remote manipulator arm for the lunar gateway space station. The European Space Agency is building a service module for the Orion spacecraft.
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  28. #88
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    "Moon Housing: New Partnership Eyes Lunar Lodging"

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/moon-ho...lunar-lodging/

    ICON is an Austin, Texas-based advanced construction technologies company using 3D printing robotics, software and advanced materials.

    The group has turned its attention to Moon-construction concepts drawing upon a Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) Strategic Fund Increase (STRATFI) contract through the U.S. Air Force-managed AFVentures’ “Open Topic” process as well as NASA dollars.
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  29. #89
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    ESA to support the mission with its contributions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...-moon-properly

    European space officials will this week unveil detailed plans for a series of ambitious missions aimed at returning humans to the moon in the next few years.

    Projects will include construction of crew quarters for an orbiting lunar space station, making the power and propulsion units for America’s Orion spacecraft, and designing and building a sophisticated communication and refuelling unit, known as Esprit, to serve astronauts on the lunar surface. These missions will be carried out jointly with Nasa and the Japanese and Canadian space agencies.

    Planning for the programme – known as Gateway – has been going on for years, but now final contracts with European aerospace companies are about to be signed and will be announced at this week’s International Astronautical Congress. “The decisions have been made and now the lunar spaceport is go,” said David Parker, head of robotics for the European Space Agency (Esa) and a key figure in the Gateway programme.
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  30. #90
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    "Bits of Venus on the Moon?"

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/bits-of-venus-on-the-moon/

    All that recent press about the history of Venus and it possibly being a life-supporting world has received additional attention. But this time, Earth’s Moon plays center stage.

    Yale astronomers suggest that NASA Artemis lunar crews might collect billions of bits of Venus likely to have crashed on the Moon.

    Venusian meteorites mixed in within the lunar terrain – how would they get there?

    The researchers said asteroids and comets slamming into Venus may have dislodged as many as 10 billion rocks and sent them into an orbit that intersected with Earth and Earth’s Moon.
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