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Thread: NASA's moon mission - ARTEMIS

  1. #301
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    South Korea is joining the Artemis Accords.

    More Starship + Orion images at the link...

    Tony Bela - Infographic news @InfographicTony
    Lunar orbit rendezvous:
    A look into the not too distant future. These are based on the most recent concepts & current iterations by @NASA & @SpaceX (not my ideas, just my interpretations). This is all part of a bigger infographic I’m working on. Next up, Starship has landed.

    20210519_010333.jpg

    https://twitter.com/InfographicTony/...54510232993794

  2. #302
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    That image makes me laugh. The Orion is like one of those little travel pods docking with the Enterprise in ST:TMP.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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  3. #303
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    Indeed. Even before my sarcasm kicked in, the first thing that went through my head was "what's the point of that...thingy? The big one comes from earth and goes to the moon." Then the thought arose that Lil' Pod was to be launched on a huge rocket of its own, and I almost screamed "WHAT'S THE POINT" at my screen. OK, a lunar lander Starship could stay in lunar orbit/lunar surface in this approach, fair enough. Sort of.

    Then the thought crossed my mind that a run-of-the-mill Falcon could launch a fancy pants flight proven capsule into lunar orbit too.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    Then the thought crossed my mind that a run-of-the-mill Falcon could launch a fancy pants flight proven capsule into lunar orbit too.
    Yes, I’ve seen variations on that argument. For instance, astronauts ride the lunar lander Starship to the Moon and land there. Separately, an uncrewed Orion is sent up on a Falcon Heavy and flies to the Moon. The Starship and Orion dock in lunar orbit, and the Orion takes them back home. Or they could use a separate standard Starship that can reenter Earth’s atmosphere and land but that would mean that many more fueling runs to send it to lunar orbit as well. Either way, though, the cost would be less per mission than flying SLS. It keeps coming down to: If Starship is reasonably successful, SLS is toast.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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  5. #305
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    And one step beyond SLS: if it's just to be used as an earth-lunar orbit pod, wouldn't a Crew Dragon be up to the job instead of an Orion?
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    And one step beyond SLS: if it's just to be used as an earth-lunar orbit pod, wouldn't a Crew Dragon be up to the job instead of an Orion?
    For lunar orbit CD would need upgrades to add fuel, consumables, extra radiation shielding, etc.

    If Starship HLS can do aerocapture into LEO without a heat shield a standard CD could meet it there.
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2021-May-19 at 06:05 PM.

  7. #307
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    Oh I was mistaken, I thought DearMoon was to be done with a Dragon so I assumed it was up to the job already.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  8. #308
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    "NASA rover to search for water, other resources on Moon"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA..._Moon_999.html

    As part of the Artemis program, NASA is planning to send its first mobile robot to the Moon in late 2023 in search of ice and other resources on and below the lunar surface. Data from the Volatiles Investigating Polar Exploration Rover, or VIPER, would help the agency map resources at the lunar South Pole that could one day be harvested for long-term human exploration at the Moon.

    VIPER's design calls for using the first headlights on a lunar rover to aid in exploring the permanently shadowed regions of the Moon. These areas haven't seen sunlight in billions of years and are some of the coldest spots in the solar system. Running on solar power, VIPER will need to quickly maneuver around the extreme swings in light and dark at the lunar South Pole.
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  9. #309
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    Europe plans sat-nav and telecoms network at the moon

    http://https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57191359

    The European Space Agency is proposing a precise navigation system at the Moon, much like the sat-nav technology we have here on Earth.

    It would enable spacecraft and astronauts to know exactly where they are when moving around the lunar body and to land with precision.

    The initiative, known as Moonlight, would also incorporate a telecommunications function.

    A large flotilla of lunar missions will be launched this decade.

    Chief among them will be the US space agency-led successor to Apollo. Called Project Artemis, this will put crews on the Moon for the first time in more than 50 years….

    …The expectation is that Esa will pursue a commercial model for the constellation, which is to say it will buy a service from an operator rather than own the system or any of the hardware.

    I think that's the way it will go," commented Nick Shave, vice president of strategic programmes at Inmarsat. "Esa will run it from a service-based perspective and leave a level of risk with the consortium. That's why it's really important now that we establish the business case and get the income model right."

    If this is the way it's done, all manner of customers - from private entities to the big space agencies, such as Esa and Nasa - will need to see the utility of contracting out their sat-nav and data-relay needs.

    Certainly, this seems to fit with the current direction of travel. Nasa is purchasing cargo-delivery and even crew-landing services from commercial providers as part of its Artemis project....
    Getting the business case, especially the commercial case, right is especially important for delivering the most productive government - commercial collaboration.

  10. #310
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    "NASA rover to search for water, other resources on Moon"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA..._Moon_999.html

    As part of the Artemis program, NASA is planning to send its first mobile robot to the Moon in late 2023 in search of ice and other resources on and below the lunar surface. Data from the Volatiles Investigating Polar Exploration Rover, or VIPER, would help the agency map resources at the lunar South Pole that could one day be harvested for long-term human exploration at the Moon.
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  11. #311
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    "GAO report identifies technical and management risks with Artemis"

    https://spacenews.com/gao-report-ide...-with-artemis/

    A Government Accountability Office report warns that NASA’s Artemis program faces technical risks as well as management issues that raise doubts about achieving the goal of returning humans to the moon by 2024.

    The May 26 report by the GAO, requested by Congress in a 2018 appropriations bill, concluded that NASA’s approach to managing the various projects involved with the overall Artemis effort increased the odds of cost increases and schedule slips.

    “With just over 3 years remaining, NASA lacks insight into the cost and schedules of some of its largest lunar programs in part because some of its programs are in the early stage of development and therefore have not yet established cost and schedule estimates or baselines,” the GAO stated in its report.
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    "GAO report identifies technical and management risks with Artemis"

    https://spacenews.com/gao-report-ide...-with-artemis/
    Isn’t this beating a dead horse at this point? You had another source talking about the same subject in post 281. Nobody now realistically expects Artemis to be ready in 2024 and it was always a long shot. Is there a reason to keep posting sources saying the same thing?

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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Isn’t this beating a dead horse at this point? You had another source talking about the same subject in post 281. Nobody now realistically expects Artemis to be ready in 2024 and it was always a long shot. Is there a reason to keep posting sources saying the same thing?
    It is the latest US government assessment on the status of Artemis.
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  14. #314
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    Artemis Accords

    Founding signatories;

    Australia
    Canada
    Italy
    Japan
    Luxembourg
    United Arab Emirates
    United Kingdom
    United States of America

    Joined October 27, 2020: European Space Agency

    https://spacenews.com/south-korea-si...temis-accords/

    South Korea signs Artemis Accords; Brazil, New Zealand likely next

    SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea signed the Artemis Accords May 27, becoming the 10th signatory to the pact that governs norms of behavior for those who want to participate in the NASA-led Artemis lunar exploration program.

    On the same day, South Korea and the United States signed an agreement on “civil global navigation satellite systems cooperation” under which the U.S. will support South Korea developing its own satellite navigation system.
    >
    More countries to join Artemis Accords
    >

    [Karen] Feldstein* did not disclose what countries were likely to sign up, but industry sources say the most likely candidates are Brazil and New Zealand. Brazil signed a joint statement of intent with NASA in December, signaling its interest in joining the accords. New Zealand’s government was interested in the Accords last year, but was delayed by a general election in October.
    >
    * Karen Feldstein: NASA Associate Administrator for International and Interagency Relations...

  15. #315
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    "NASA selects new science investigations for future lunar deliveries"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA...eries_999.html

    As NASA continues plans for multiple commercial deliveries to the Moon's surface per year, the agency has selected three new scientific investigation payload suites to advance understanding of Earth's nearest neighbor. Two of the payload suites will land on the far side of the Moon, a first for NASA. All three investigations will receive rides to the lunar surface as part of NASA's Commercial Lunar Payload Services, or CLPS, initiative, part of the agency's Artemis approach.

    The payloads mark the agency's first selections from its Payloads and Research Investigations on the Surface of the Moon (PRISM) call for proposals.
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  16. #316
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    "Purposeful Passenger: Artemis I Manikin Helps Prepare for Moon Missions With Crew"

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/purpose...ions-with-crew

    When NASA’s Orion spacecraft launches aboard the powerful Space Launch System rocket for the spacecraft’s first mission around the Moon later this year, a suited manikin will be aboard outfitted with sensors to provide data on what crew members may experience in flight. As part of the uncrewed Artemis I flight test, NASA is seeking to learn how best to protect astronauts for Artemis II, the first mission with crew.

    Manikins have long been used as human stand-ins for various industries, such as training for emergency rescues, developing equipment for extreme environments without risking potential harm to human subjects, and assessing potential injuries in other applications.

    The manikin flying on Artemis I will occupy the commander’s seat inside Orion, be equipped with two radiation sensors, and wear a first-generation Orion Crew Survival System suit – a spacesuit astronauts will wear during launch, entry, and other dynamic phases of their missions.
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Artemis Accords
    The Accords do have a thread: https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthr...rtemis-Accords
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  18. #318
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    "NASA, Nelson push for annual moon landings for 'a dozen years'"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA...years_999.html

    NASA needs crewed lunar landings every year for "a dozen years," the agency's administrator, Bill Nelson, said in a House of Representatives committee hearing Wednesday.

    Nelson, who became administrator May 3, said Congress hasn't appropriated enough money for the nation's coming lunar aspirations.

    "We want to have these sustained landings over a dozen years, and that's gonna cost some more money," Nelson testified to the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.
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  19. #319
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    "Masten delays first lunar lander mission"

    https://spacenews.com/masten-delays-...ander-mission/

    Masten Space Systems is pushing back the launch of its first lunar lander mission by nearly a year, the latest in a series of delays by companies with NASA contracts to transport payloads to the moon.

    Masten said June 23 that its Masten Mission 1 lander, which had been scheduled to launch in December 2022 to land near Haworth Crater in the south polar regions of the moon, will instead launch in November 2023. The company blamed the delay on the cumulative effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and industry-wide supply chain issues.
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    "Masten delays first lunar lander mission"

    https://spacenews.com/masten-delays-...ander-mission/
    NASA will have to rent a lot to land in by the time they get there.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  21. #321
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    NASA mat be putting the squeeze on Blue's National Team and Dynetics wrt their GAO protest...

    Gamesmanship

    https://spacenews.com/nasa-seeking-p...stry-protests/

    >
    NASA announced plans for NextSTEP Appendix N in late April, shortly after*awarding a $2.9 billion contract to SpaceX as the sole winner of the Human Landing System (HLS) competition*for development of a lander and a single demonstration mission with astronauts.
    >
    Proposals are due to NASA Aug. 2 with awards expected in the fall.
    >
    One industry source, speaking on background, noted that NASA issued the NextSTEP Appendix N request for proposals without first issuing a draft version for comment.
    >
    “They’re trying to make it a fait accompli,” the source said of NASA’s efforts to get ahead of both Congress and the GAO on its lunar landing services program. “I’ve never seen an agency do this kind of thing before.”*
    >
    “The timing may compel the protesters to basically ‘conceding’ to participate in the NASA-defined process leading to LETS,” said Greg Autry, professor at Arizona State University’s Thunderbird School of Global Management [...]
    >

  22. #322
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    "The heart of a lunar sensor"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/Th...ensor_999.html

    The heart of the Exospheric Mass Spectrometer (EMS) is visible in this image of the key sensor that will study the abundance of lunar water and water ice for upcoming missions to the Moon.

    This spectrometer is being delivered to NASA as part of the PITMS instrument for its launch to the Moon later this year.

    EMS is based on an 'ion trap', an ingenious detector device that allows researchers to identify and quantify sample atoms and molecules in a gas and allows to establish a corresponding mass spectrum. Scientists at The Open University and RAL Space are developing EMS under an ESA contract.
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  23. #323
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    "Moon Infrastructure: Networking on the Moon"

    https://www.leonarddavid.com/moon-in...g-on-the-moon/

    In late 2022, an Intuitive Machines Nova-C Moon lander is to carry several payloads, including a Nokia LTE/4G communications system to the lunar South Pole – a wireless communications network on the Moon that serves as a communications gateway to Earth.

    Nova-C will also carry an M1 Mobile Autonomous Prospecting Platform (MAPP) rover — built by Lunar Outpost, headquartered in Golden, Colorado — that is equipped with Nokia’s LTE/4G user equipment and deployable antennas.

    Lunar Outpost’s rover will tote several other commercial and scientific payloads on-board during the mission, scheduled for late 2022.
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  24. #324
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    Bezos wrote an open letter saying he is now willing to invest his own money in the moon lander. Article here:

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...der-heres-why/

    This is exactly what I thought he should have been doing if he was serious about it. It does make me hopeful that Blue Origin might start to become a serious competitor. Apparently he wasn’t happy losing to SpaceX and is offering more commitment, but it is a bit late to be saying this now, rather than it having been incorporated into their bidding offer in the first place

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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  25. #325
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    Here’s the link to the open letter itself:

    https://blueorigin.com/news-archive/...strator-nelson

    I notice he makes a point of mentioning all the involved suppliers “in 47 states” obviously directed at Congress. And, wow, it still comes across as petty to me. Quoting:

    Yet, in spite of these benefits and at the last minute, the Source Selection Official veered from the Agency’s oft-stated procurement strategy. Instead of investing in two competing lunar landers as originally intended, the Agency chose to confer a multi-year, multi-billion-dollar head start to SpaceX. That decision broke the mold of NASA’s successful commercial space programs by putting an end to meaningful competition for years to come. It also eliminated the benefits of utilizing the broad and capable supply base of the National Team (as opposed to funding the vertically-integrated SpaceX approach) and locks every trip to the Moon into 10+ Super Heavy/Starship launches just to get a single lander to the surface.


    So another dig on vertically integrated SpaceX (which means less pork to go around but also a big reason SpaceX can do more for less money). It’s pretty straightforward: They were asking for too much money, SpaceX wasn’t. NASA didn’t have the money. At least he seems to realize that now, based on his offer.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  26. #326
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    Still full of sour grapes, blaming Kathy Leuders' source selection statement for finding the (many) shortcomings of their proposal.

  27. #327
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    Falcon Heavy was just chosen over SLS for a launch. Perhaps the extra fat factor 10 pork isn't as tasty anymore and he shouldn't be putting his hopes on that argument. If your project takes up more resources, that's a bad thing, not a good thing. If you want to provide work for many people, it's better to do it with 10 efficient programs than with 1 inefficient one.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  28. #328
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    Bezos is a bad joke, his company hs failed to deliver at every turn. Is NASA supposed to be blown away that he's finally gotten his theme park ride working?

  29. #329
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    "my solution-to-be requires a LOT of work while his doesn't!"

    ... [dog barking in the distance]

    "That is a good thing people, a GOOD THING!"

    ... [crickets]

    "...hello?"
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  30. #330
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    GAO decision..

    Press Release

    Statement on Blue Origin-Dynetics Decision


    The following is a statement from Kenneth E. Patton, Managing Associate General Counsel for Procurement Law at GAO, regarding today’s decision resolving the protests filed by Blue Origin Federation, LLC, and Dynetics, Inc. – A Leidos Company, B-417839 et al., Friday, July 30, 2021.

    On Friday, July 30, 2021, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) denied protests filed by Blue Origin Federation, LLC, of South Kent, Washington, and Dynetics, Inc.-A Leidos Company, of Huntsville, Alabama.* The protesters challenged their non-selection for awards and the award of optional contract line item numbers to Space Exploration Technologies Corp. (SpaceX), of Hawthorne, California, under Option A to Appendix H of Broad Agency Announcement (the announcement) No.*NNH19ZCQ001K.*
    >
    The announcement was issued by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), for a demonstration mission for a human landing system for lunar exploration.
    >

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