Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Hero pilots

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,771

    Hero pilots

    An accident just happened in Russia, where a plane at takeoff ingested birds and lost both engines, and made a crash landing in a field, with all passengers surviving. In the media they are calling the pilot a "hero," which seems to be often the case in such incidents. It always bothers me a little, because I would say he was skillful, and did an admirable job in crash landing the plane, but to me a hero is someone who puts their own life at risk to save others, and in this case the pilot was already on the plane and so didn't really have much choice (well, I suppose he could have ran to the back of the plane, but that's not really the best option for his own survival...).

    Is it just me?

    ETA: And oh, the reason I put it here is that I intended to ask, what are the odds of safely putting a plane down when you lose both engines and have a flat area to land on (but not a runway) with fields but not trees?
    As above, so below

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NEOTP Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,814

    Hero pilots

    A corn field is just as hard as tarmac when it comes to airplanes landing without benefit of landing gear. The corn stalks may have even been a good momentum arrestor.

    The PF did a very good job. Iíve heard comparisons to Sullenberger splashing in the Hudson but I donít think they are apples to apples. Sullenberger tried to bleed speed and drag the tail for as long as possible, and at the end of a glide above upper Manhattan, with decisions being made about returning to LGA or reaching Teterboro airport.

    The cornfield was basically a gears up belly landing. Not easy, by any means, but also not the same. Glad they had that field though. Far better outcome than Sioux City and the DC-10 that cartwheeled into that cornfield.

    ETA: quote from the pilot.

    ďMany people say that I am a hero, but to be honest, I donít feel like a hero at all, because I did what I had to do: saved the plane, passengers, crew.Ē
    -Damir Yusupov
    Last edited by schlaugh; 2019-Aug-16 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,864
    It grates on me a little, too - in my old job we used to hear about surgeons being "heroes" occasionally, and they don't even have skin in the game.

    But I think there's a difference in usage. The pilots and surgeons are "heroes" in the sense of "I want you to know that you're my hero" - people who have done a good and remarkable thing and are deemed to be suitable role models for others. It also underlies, I think, the occasional reports of someone having "died after a heroic struggle with cancer".
    By way of a final illustration of the usage, I'll quote one of the security question options attached to my University log-in: "Who is your personal hero?" (Along with "What's your favourite colour?" and "Who is your best friend?", this made me suspect that the question list had been compiled by a ten-year-old.)

    Grant Hutchison

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    49,149
    Jane Goodall
    Green
    My wife

    I think Grant has it right with the "you're my hero". I also think humans like heros, we like uplifting stories, back to the time of myths and legends. "Hero" might be a little overused, but let people have a little light in the darkness.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Jane Goodall
    Green
    My wife
    You'd have a lot less trouble choosing security questions than I did!

    Grant Hutchison

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,860
    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    A corn field is just as hard as tarmac when it comes to airplanes landing without benefit of landing gear.
    Yes, unless it was a very gentle rate, though unlikely, where the stalks could assist vertically. If we use, say, 3 to 5 lbsf. of resistance per stalk and three stalks per sq. ft., then assuming about 100 sq. ft. of surface, perhaps, a force of up to 3k to 5k lbsf. might have contributed in reducing the rate of vertical descent.

    Saving one or more lives can make one a hero, especially for the ones who survived. I think, perhaps ironically, no clear act of heroism is needed. There is a great deal required for any person to learn the science and art of piloting, doctoring, fire fighting, policing, etc. that warrants extra credit when lives are saved, even if they are just doing their job. It's still a matter of degree, however, as saving a cat wouldn't qualify unless it was atop a redwood.
    We know time flies, we just can't see its wings.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Florida.
    Posts
    5,867
    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    An accident just happened in Russia, where a plane at takeoff ingested birds and lost both engines, and made a crash landing in a field, with all passengers surviving. In the media they are calling the pilot a "hero...
    Those birds might disagree.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,593
    Medaris
    Red
    the people here.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    16,235
    Quote Originally Posted by publiusr View Post
    Medaris
    Red
    the people here.
    So much depends
    upon

    Forum posts
    punctuated

    To remind one
    of poetry.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroesí wings we fly!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,771
    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post

    The cornfield was basically a gears up belly landing. Not easy, by any means, but also not the same. Glad they had that field though. Far better outcome than Sioux City and the DC-10 that cartwheeled into that cornfield.
    That was quite different, though because in Sioux City it really a terrible situation, since they couldnít deploy the flaps or use the control surfaces, and couldnít idle the engines because they needed them for control, so they ended up landing at 214 knots I think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As above, so below

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,771
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I think Grant has it right with the "you're my hero". I also think humans like heros, we like uplifting stories, back to the time of myths and legends. "Hero" might be a little overused, but let people have a little light in the darkness.
    Sure, I understand. Itís just my natural irritability coming out I guess.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As above, so below

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA (near Washington, DC)
    Posts
    8,762
    A pilot with the "right stuff", including the ability to remain calm and focused in a catastrophic in-flight emergency, fits the common prevailing definitions of a hero. A case in which a pilot took it to the next level occurred back in 1965 near New York. The captain of an Eastern Airlines Constellation which had been crippled in a collision improvised a means of partially controlling the descent with some fancy handling of the engines. He managed to find an open field and crash-landed the plane, which broke into three pieces and caught fire. After getting out of the cockpit unhurt he went into the burning wreckage to assist the passengers in getting out. He died from smoke inhalation while attempting to get the last remaining passenger out. All but three of the passengers survived. A good question is whether or not he was going above and beyond the call of duty under the circumstances, in which he had no means of fighting the fire. My guess is that he considered it his duty to do what he was doing.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I think Grant has it right with the "you're my hero". I also think humans like heros, we like uplifting stories, back to the time of myths and legends. "Hero" might be a little overused, but let people have a little light in the darkness.
    It do sympathize with those who, after just doing the job they were trained to do, find themselves on the receiving end of this sort of "hero" label, though. It feels as if you've suddenly been reduced from a real person to a rather simplistic narrative, and I understand why so many of them reject that sort of manipulation, no matter how well-meaning.

    Grant Hutchison

  14. #14
    See the link right after 11:30.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2fhzvd

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    3,032
    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It do sympathize with those who, after just doing the job they were trained to do, find themselves on the receiving end of this sort of "hero" label, though. It feels as if you've suddenly been reduced from a real person to a rather simplistic narrative, and I understand why so many of them reject that sort of manipulation, no matter how well-meaning.

    Grant Hutchison
    Agree. Possibly even worse for me is the common insistence of the media to describe the recovery of a patient (for instance, after a complex surgery) as being a "miracle".

    I always feel feel that such a description completely overlooks, even negates, the skill of the medical team and the many, many years of training that placed them in that position where they can treat the patient. First world problems and all that, but it really annoys me!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,593
    Same with disasters. Often times, well meaning people will describe how they were not struck by a tornado was "a miracle" within earshot of someone who lost a home and/or family members.

    When I remind folks that a miracle would be for the debris to rise, float in the air, then reform into peoples houses--I get dirty looks.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,860
    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    Agree. Possibly even worse for me is the common insistence of the media to describe the recovery of a patient (for instance, after a complex surgery) as being a "miracle".

    I always feel feel that such a description completely overlooks, even negates, the skill of the medical team and the many, many years of training that placed them in that position where they can treat the patient. First world problems and all that, but it really annoys me!
    That's a good point. And it diminishes the meaning of a miracle; if everything's a miracle, nothing's a miracle.
    We know time flies, we just can't see its wings.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •