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Thread: Star Trek Voyager revisited

  1. #61
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    The only "mirror mirror" episode I liked was the one where the evil Capt Archer got his just rewards in the Star Trek Enterprise series.

  2. #62
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    Unfortunately, the mirror universe bit of Discovery is the only unequivocally good bit of that show.

    Living Witness did more than just a mirror universe episode. It was a story about revisionist history.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glom View Post

    Living Witness did more than just a mirror universe episode. It was a story about revisionist history.
    Yes. But I was saying it seemed a way to do the MU without doing an MU episode. The characters got to stretch a bit and play evil or demented versions of themselves, which I am sure has value for them and may have been fun.

    CJSF
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  4. #64
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    Let me get this straight. In "Timeless" Harry finds a way to send a message back in time to Seven to try an prevent Voyager's crash and crews' deaths 15 years prior. So he constrains it to a specific and chaotic time, with parameters he'd already not gotten right (leading to the tragedy in the first place). Why not construct a more coherent message - no "embedded" love letter to yourself - to Seven that she receives before they even have the slipstream drive celebration? Or before they engage it at least? What if Janeway had gone the other way and decided the Borg were trying to tamper or hinder their efforts and told Seven to ignore the parameters?

    On the other hand. Captain LaForge FTW!

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


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  5. #65
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    "Once Upon A Time" was cute, and I like that they handled a heavy subject like that, as well as a couple of episodes before, with "Extreme Risk". B'elanna's depression and self-harm were well done (given the compressed time of an episode) and hit a bit close to home as of late. So we have ancillary evidence that starships can be shuttlecraft factories, too.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    We watched the 2 part "Year of Hell"... As the ship is getting more and more heavily damaged
    I read a bunch of other viewers at the time who mostly like that but were also disappointed that it didn't get to grow into its potential; the general consensus seemed to be that it represented a great opportunity to take the show overall in a more compelling direction, but the opportunity was then missed by limiting it to two episodes and resetting at the end.

    Then it was officially revealed that that description was actually close to the actual history behind the writing & production: it had started out as the overall structure for at least one whole season, then that got overruled by the "everything needs to stay the same" side, and the people who had come up with the idea of turning the series in that direction were told to just do an episode or two of it, which just wasn't nearly enough time for what they'd actually proposed.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
    I read a bunch of other viewers at the time who mostly like that but were also disappointed that it didn't get to grow into its potential; the general consensus seemed to be that it represented a great opportunity to take the show overall in a more compelling direction, but the opportunity was then missed by limiting it to two episodes and resetting at the end.

    Then it was officially revealed that that description was actually close to the actual history behind the writing & production: it had started out as the overall structure for at least one whole season, then that got overruled by the "everything needs to stay the same" side, and the people who had come up with the idea of turning the series in that direction were told to just do an episode or two of it, which just wasn't nearly enough time for what they'd actually proposed.
    Yeah, as I think has been mentioned up-thread (?), season (or series-long) developed story arcs were just not the norm when Voyager started. So I can see why there would have been a fight over it and it going the way it did. These days, I believe it would be much different... although I think the general positive outlook of Voyager wouldn't survive long.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    The "Demon" episode presents some serious potential future issues, too. LOTS of expanded universe fodder there. I find it curious that the dupes all had uniforms on. I guess since they are all themselves in their minds eye, they'd still maybe feel weird being naked in front of crewmates. But still, in any case you now have an entire copy of the Voyager crew on this planet. They tried to tie it up by giving the dupes some strong affinity for the planet itself, but I see this innovative Starfleet crew finding a way to want to explore off this world and maybe even head "home" - or home away from home. Issues. I see issues!
    (Accidentally skipped to "The Disease" and more relevant: "Course: Oblivion")

    .oh.







    WHAT A HORRIBLE EPISODE! What terrible pits of despair were the writers, director and producers in to do that to the fans! OMG!

    CJSF

    [Watches
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


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  9. #69
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    I had the privilege of seeing the late W. Morgan Shepherd in "Bliss" (ep 14) last night. He was at once instantly recognizable, yet wholly the character. This episode sees the friendship between Seven and Naomi Wildman develop further. I thought I'd really dislike this relationship, since it seemed so predictable. But in fact, I really love it. Especially how warm, yet not cuddly, they've done it. I tell you, though. It's amazing Seven hasn't just incarcerated the whole crew in quarters and taken over the mission herself at this point!

    The previous episode ("Gravity"), besides a more-than-usual set of technobabble, was perhaps reaching higher than it was able to grasp. Lori Petty (Noss) sure got around in the 90s, eh? It was fun comparing Noss to Tank Girl, for about 2 seconds, and I began lamenting the 1 hour and 44 minutes of my life I will never get back from watching that movie.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    (Accidentally skipped to "The Disease" and more relevant: "Course: Oblivion")

    .oh.







    WHAT A HORRIBLE EPISODE! What terrible pits of despair were the writers, director and producers in to do that to the fans! OMG!
    I've wondered about that myself...Course:Oblivion seemed specifically designed to kill off any possibility of a follow-on to the Demon episode. That in fact seemed to be the one and only reason for that episode's existence, and they contrived a plot that was inconsistent with the original in significant ways to do it. I've wondered if someone on the writing team just utterly hated that particular episode for some reason.

  11. #71
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    OK, now I know the Borg/Federation timeline is off. In "Dark Frontier" (2 part), the Raven (the Hansens' ship) is sent off to research the Borg a decade before the Enterprise investigates the destruction of the planets along the Neutral Zone and the events of "Q Who". It's quite a retcon to have Starfleet aware of the Borg in the 2360s enough to send not only reckless "explorers" but ones with enough know-how and technology to evade detection and to perform in situ experiments a la the creepy aliens in "Scientific Method" (Season 4, ep 7). Sure, maybe the Federation/Starfleet had decades prior knowledge, but none of the events in TNG (TV or movies) indicate that's at all true.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    OK, now I know the Borg/Federation timeline is off. In "Dark Frontier" (2 part), the Raven (the Hansens' ship) is sent off to research the Borg a decade before the Enterprise investigates the destruction of the planets along the Neutral Zone and the events of "Q Who". It's quite a retcon to have Starfleet aware of the Borg in the 2360s enough to send not only reckless "explorers" but ones with enough know-how and technology to evade detection and to perform in situ experiments a la the creepy aliens in "Scientific Method" (Season 4, ep 7). Sure, maybe the Federation/Starfleet had decades prior knowledge, but none of the events in TNG (TV or movies) indicate that's at all true.

    CJSF
    SPOILER ALERT:



    Wait until you watch Enterprise. They screw up the ENTIRE history of Star Trek canon. "Berman & Braga; They Just Don't Care!"TM
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    SPOILER ALERT:



    Wait until you watch Enterprise. They screw up the ENTIRE history of Star Trek canon. "Berman & Braga; They Just Don't Care!"TM
    Oh, I've seen Enterprise. I actually liked it, on the whole, but I personally chalked up all the inconsistencies with the timeline to the temporal cold war. Which I suppose one can do with ALL of Trek, if you overthink it.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Oh, I've seen Enterprise. I actually liked it, on the whole, but I personally chalked up all the inconsistencies with the timeline to the temporal cold war. Which I suppose one can do with ALL of Trek, if you overthink it.

    CJSF
    I always hearken back to the TNG episode "Parallels", and its enormous multiverse of possible worlds. In my own head-canon, everything that aired after DS9 happened in slightly alternate universes.

    I think Discovery also has a link to a multiverse, through their "spore drive" that can reach other dimensions and times. I haven't seen that show yet so I can't comment in detail.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I always hearken back to the TNG episode "Parallels", and its enormous multiverse of possible worlds. In my own head-canon, everything that aired after DS9 happened in slightly alternate universes.

    I think Discovery also has a link to a multiverse, through their "spore drive" that can reach other dimensions and times. I haven't seen that show yet so I can't comment in detail.
    Yes, I have sometimes though similarly, vis-a-vis "Parallels". I haven't decided if I'll ever bother with Discovery, from what I've heard.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

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