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Thread: Star Trek Voyager revisited

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    The BQ was literally built by the Borg in First Contact. When she was destroyed maybe they just assembled a new one.
    Where was this explained? I don't recall it. She tells Jean-Luc that she'd always been there, even though he at first doesn't remember. She tells him he sees a contradiction where there is none. That she IS the collective.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Where was this explained? I don't recall it. She tells Jean-Luc that she'd always been there, even though he at first doesn't remember. She tells him he sees a contradiction where there is none. That she IS the collective.

    CJSF
    She was blowing smoke up his butt. Manipulating him, as she lied to Data.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    She was blowing smoke up his butt. Manipulating him, as she lied to Data.
    I suppose. But with some deeper instrospection, he does recall her being there when he became Locutus.

    In any case, just like all the Trek series, previous situations and facts become superfluous to the plot of the day. It's part of how the writing was done for TV then, extending back years. We like to deride Lucas for the twisted retconning (and bad writing) for Star Wars (and arguably well deserved), but Trek and many other beloved stories in TV and movies have all had elements of that.

    We certainly got to know more about B'Elanna's life in "Lineage" and the contemporary issue of gene editing and in-utero alteration was brought to the fore. This episode and "Repentance" certainly laid on the moral questions thick. There was nothing at all subtle about it. I guess it's good that they made for some uncomfortable watching. I'm not sure if I "like" the subtext of the Benkarans being portrayed as racial scapegoats first, but then shown to be exactly as demonized by Joleg. The question the amount of "free will" violent criminals have is still debated today, at least academically. Given Voyager's other predicaments, one wonders if fixing some violent crimes was as easy as repiaring a brain node/gland if they'd find it morally objectionable.

    "Prophecy" was much better written, and though it probably plays fast and loose with Klingon society and religion (something always a bit malleable in Trek), I thought it was well done. The way the nature of prophecy is used reminds me of the Iron Maiden song, "Die With Your Boots On." And now we have a Klingon colony in the Delta Quadrant (it is handy that all the "alien" species divide the galaxy up the same way, isn't it?)

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  4. #94
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    Well. That was a slightly anti-climactic end to the series.

    My wife and I experienced a little disorientation with the last few episodes, given that although Seven had a holofantasy of her dating Chakotay, there had never been any indication of his reciprocating, and we had left Seven with shutting down her emotions so she wouldn't die from her Borg implant. So to have them on a 3rd date and her being warm and grinning and (for her) giggly was a bit strange.

    The penultimate episode (if you consider the 2 part finale as one) had the doctor really crossing a line. My wife would have deactivated him after he joined the hologram rebellion, but I "let" that squeak by. But after disobeying that direct order and stranding Voyager, helpless, without a warp core, his "disciplinary" action would have been at the *best* deactivating and storing his latest version and activating his "basic" back up for the duration of the voyage, with close restrictions on him expanding his programming. I'd only activate him to court martial him later in the voyage, or upon getting home. At the very least there should have been a public revoking of the ECH protocols.

    For the finale, I thought the scenes with Janeway talking with herself were well done, from a technical and editing point of view, and it seemed natural to me. Shades of Tatiana Maslany (Orphan Black), in a away. I forgot there weren't two actors much of the time. The temporal causality problem still bugs me though. There was more than one episode, through the series, where altering the timeline to "fix" future events was seen as killing the persons involved, even if it meant they "merely" never existed. It was a huge moral quandry. But here, Old Janeway has no qualms at all (ok, I get it, she became obsessed and selfish about it), and it doesn't seem to enter Young Janeway's mind at all, nor do any other crewmembers (Old or Young) bring it up. Old Harry Kim is a disappointment as a captain. No backbone at all.

    But of course, I am "glad" (keeping in mind that this is all in the realm of enjoying a TV show) the crew made it home, more intact than otherwise indicated at the start, 33 years in the future. I know there have been subsequent novels and other media taking the Voyager plot further, but as far as Star Trek "canon" goes, I wonder if the Borg Queen's demise is permanent and what that means for the Borg. Is she the only Queen? She "survived" being destroyed in "First Contact" - I do think this was supposed to be the same Queen, though I haven't delved into the issue to dig out where and when that was said/shown.

    On the whole, I did enjoy the show, and I haven't commented on all the episodes I'd like to this point. I was hoping to get some notions down and see if anyone else had comments or wanted to reminiscence about the show.

    CJSF
    "Flipping this one final switch I'm effectively ensuring that I will be
    Overcoming all resistance long after my remains have been
    Vaporized with extreme prejudice and shot into outer space.

    I'll be haunting you."

    -They Might Be Giants, "I'll Be Haunting You"


    lonelybirder.org

  5. #95
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    I think the future Janeway probably also gave her logs about what she found on the way home--giving her rescued crew info without risk.

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