US Nimitz UFO event

[Gillianren]

I'm now resolved to teach the kids, as they get older (Irene will listen politely to this lesson and agree, but I wouldn't say she'd actually take it in), that the most important letter in "UFO" is the U. As in, "I don't know what I saw." Because I feel that leaves you more open to actually exploring options like "human craft" or "Venus" or "weird reflection."

[grant hutchison]

I'm not sure I'd say flip-flopping. Those are two different circumstances. An on-duty operator aboard the USS Princeton tasked with monitoring local airspace and vectoring aircraft is unlikely to engage in any silliness. Whereas the pilot's off-duty comrades certainly are.

In terms of human factors management, however, that particular bit of off-duty silliness works to undermine the pilot's willingness to report a visual anomaly during the investigation of a radar anomaly. To that extent it's a failure of critical thinking and the application of a double standard. A change in military culture towards giving positive support to pilots who report anomalous observations clearly and thoroughly can only be of benefit to all concerned, and will certainly not discourage critical thinking.

Grant Hutchison

[geonuc]

In terms of human factors management, however, that particular bit of off-duty silliness works to undermine the pilot's willingness to report a visual anomaly during the investigation of a radar anomaly. To that extent it's a failure of critical thinking and the application of a double standard. A change in military culture towards giving positive support to pilots who report anomalous observations clearly and thoroughly can only be of benefit to all concerned, and will certainly not discourage critical thinking.

Grant Hutchison

Perhaps, but I commented only on the your use of the term 'flip-flopping'.

[grant hutchison]

Perhaps, but I commented only on the your use of the term 'flip-flopping'.

And I was attempting to explain why I think flip-flopping was a good choice of word.

Grant Hutchison

[Spacedude]

Below is a story that came out today regarding the authenticity of the videos, for what it's worth apparently the US Navy has confirmed that the objects which were filmed are real (all 3 encounters), but the question remains "real what?".


https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...o-videos-real/

[grant hutchison]

Below is a story that came out today regarding the authenticity of the videos, for what it's worth apparently the US Navy has confirmed that the objects which were filmed are real (all 3 encounters), but the question remains "real what?".

According to the article, they've said that the videos are genuine, rather than that they depict real objects - "unexplained aerial phenomena" covers a lot of possibilities, only some of which are "objects".

Grant Hutchison

[Spacedude]

The article does go on to state that :

Navy "designates the objects contained in these videos as unidentified aerial phenomena."
That terminology is important. "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" provides "the basic descriptor for the sightings/observations of unauthorized/unidentified aircraft/objects that have been observed entering/operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges,"

[grant hutchison]

The article does go on to state that :

Navy "designates the objects contained in these videos as unidentified aerial phenomena."
That terminology is important. "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" provides "the basic descriptor for the sightings/observations of unauthorized/unidentified aircraft/objects that have been observed entering/operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges,"

Yes, it's an interesting statement, but it makes little sense - "unauthorized" is not implicit in the word "unindentified", and "object" is something of a minority subset of "phenomenon". Indeed, the concept of a UAP was specifically adopted in order to get away from the idea that "objects" and "flying" were necessarily involved.

Grant Hutchison

[Spacedude]

Well, I'm only going by the statements in the article which refer to the UAP as "objects' such as in this excerpt below :

In each case, the objects in the videos undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology. In the 2004 incident, according to The New York Times, the objects "appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up."

[grant hutchison]

Well, I'm only going by the statements in the article which refer to the UAP as "objects' such as in this excerpt below :

In each case, the objects in the videos undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology. In the 2004 incident, according to The New York Times, the objects "appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up."

Yeah, I noticed that too. it's annoying when people misuse or misrepresent terms of art, but what can you do? I've given up trying to police "allergy", "chronic" and "acute", too.

Grant Hutchison

[George]

Well, I'm only going by the statements in the article which refer to the UAP as "objects' such as in this excerpt below :

In each case, the objects in the videos undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology. In the 2004 incident, according to The New York Times, the objects "appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up."

But wouldn't "apparent objects" be more accurate? If they were, somehow, confirmed material objects, falsifying any chance it was an optical effect, wouldn't that make a better headline, rather than just the videos are real? I'm curious how they know those altitudes, or was this addressed earlier?

[eburacum45]

From my reading of these videos, all three seem to have been 'objects' of some sort;
the Nimitz clip seems to show an unknown and unidentified aircraft in the distance,
the GoFast clip seems to show a small object moving relatively slowly (halfway between the sea and the plane's altitude)(possibly a seabird or a balloon of unknown provenance)
and the Gimbal clip shows another unknown and unidentified aircraft in the distance.

Note that none of these possibilities rule out some sort of extraterrestrial involvement, but since we are on Earth surrounded by terrestrial planes, birds and balloons, it seems more likely that these sightings have terrestrial explanations.

[eburacum45]

Note that I am only really interested in discussing the actual clips, not the supposed radar contacts that initiated the encounter. We don't have any recordings of those contacts, so it is possible that they are being misremembered or distorted in some way (particularly after the passage of time).

[gzhpcu]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/18/p...rnd/index.html

[grant hutchison]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/18/p...rnd/index.html

Gradisher said the Navy's transparency about unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAP, is largely done to encourage trainees to report "incursions" they spot in the airfield, which threaten pilots' safety.
"This is all about frequent incursions into our training ranges by UAPs," he said. "Those incursions present a safety hazard to the safe flight of our aviators and the security of our operations."

So now at least we have a partial explanation of Gradisher's strange version of what a UAP is.

Grant Hutchison

[grant hutchison]

From my reading of these videos, all three seem to have been 'objects' of some sort;

Yes, I think they're "objects" in the same way a mirage of a camel is an "object". But the inverted camel hanging in the air is interesting not because it's a camel but because of its remarkable apparent location and behaviour - it's the phenomenon of atmospheric refraction that's the key component, not the camel, though both are necessary. Likewise, I think, while the FLIR1, GoFast and Gimbal videos all depict objects, they've become interesting because of the camera processing that has rendered them apparently exotic.

Grant Hutchison

[eburacum45]

Hmm; the 'illusion' in this case appears to have been caused by the fact that the FLIR instrument rotates independently of the direction of movement of the plane. This allows the sensor to maintain a directional lock on the object concerned, but the counter-rotation of the instrument is counter-intuitive, and may have caused some disorientation on the part of the person operating the camera.

Strangely enough I've just been reading an essay by Arthur C. Clarke about a similar instrument, which he intended to be used inside a rotating space habitat. In order to counteract the rotation of such a structure, he proposed the use of a 'coelostat' - a system of counter-rotating mirrors that kept the Earth outside in view. Indeed he built one, and it apparently worked. Astronomers will of course be familiar with the concept.

The counter-rotation of the FLIR gimbal acts a bit like Arthur Clarke's coelostat - it keeps the target in constant view, but everything else continues to move at an alarming rate, and seems to produce an illusion of rapid movement in a target which is actually relatively motionless.

[publiusr]

Thank you for that bit of information.

[Thoth101]

They are slowly giving us disclosure. Why do you think Ancient Aliens has been allowed to air? They have all kind of shows on it now. Their is a real good one they just put on Netflix about the governments keeping it a secret. I think a big part is they weren't sure how the public would act if they were told aliens are here and have been here for a very long time. Doing it slowly people will get used to the idea. Then one day they can say guess what "most of your leadership are reptilians".

[Swift]

They are slowly giving us disclosure. Why do you think Ancient Aliens has been allowed to air? They have all kind of shows on it now. Their is a real good one they just put on Netflix about the governments keeping it a secret. I think a big part is they weren't sure how the public would act if they were told aliens are here and have been here for a very long time. Doing it slowly people will get used to the idea. Then one day they can say guess what "most of your leadership are reptilians".

Thoth101

Given the 'wink' I'm not sure if you are serious or joking. If you are serious about the government keeping aliens secret, you will be expected to defend that position.

[monkeyboysdontknow]

They are slowly giving us disclosure. Why do you think Ancient Aliens has been allowed to air? They have all kind of shows on it now. Their is a real good one they just put on Netflix about the governments keeping it a secret. I think a big part is they weren't sure how the public would act if they were told aliens are here and have been here for a very long time. Doing it slowly people will get used to the idea. Then one day they can say guess what "most of your leadership are reptilians".

The ridiculous notion, that governments are keeping ET's existence on Earth a secret, is an example of a lack of critical thinking at its worst. Any such alien race would have one of two choices upon arriving on our planet.
1. Allow themselves to be seen/disclosed.
2. Observe/visit us undetected.
If they decided on option 1, there is nothing governments could do about it, and we would know this already. They would also have no interest in subjecting themselves to governmental disclosure procedures from a people who would inevitably use such information for their own selfish purposes. As for number 2, any civilization advanced enough to visit us from another solar system would by necessity be thousands or more years technologically advanced than we are. If you look at our current technology for stealth and discreet observation abilities (spy satellites, nano-spy devices, etc.), it follows that any such visitors would be so far ahead of even these impressive achievements, they would be completely undetectable to our relatively primitive methods.

Don't even get me started on "ancient aliens".

[Roger E. Moore]

The ridiculous notion, that governments are keeping ET's existence on Earth a secret, is an example of a lack of critical thinking at its worst. Any such alien race would have one of two choices upon arriving on our planet.

1. Give us blankets infected with Cosmic Smallpox, then terraform.
2. Use white-hole bombs and dark-matter rays for three minutes, then terraform.

[Noclevername]

1. Give us blankets infected with Cosmic Smallpox, then terraform.
2. Use white-hole bombs and dark-matter rays for three minutes, then terraform.

Either way, we'd probably see them doing it.

[Superluminal]

They are slowly giving us disclosure. Why do you think Ancient Aliens has been allowed to air? They have all kind of shows on it now. Their is a real good one they just put on Netflix about the governments keeping it a secret. I think a big part is they weren't sure how the public would act if they were told aliens are here and have been here for a very long time. Doing it slowly people will get used to the idea. Then one day they can say guess what "most of your leadership are reptilians".

I remember a hypothesis back in the 80's, that the reason Hollywood was making so many space movies, Star Wars, Star Trek, E.T. etc., was a government conspiracy to get people used to the idea of aliens. But, I believe the reason is that space movies sell. And there's an audience for "Ancient Aliens." If people quit watching stuff like that, Hollywood will quit making it. Besides the people who would be disturbed by the presence of aliens, probably don't get into that stuff anyway.