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Thread: Newish theory life started in hot springs, but on land, not deep under sea...

  1. #1
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    Newish theory life started in hot springs, but on land, not deep under sea...

    Did life on Earth start from a warm little pond on the surface (as Darwin thought), or from hot springs deep under the ocean? A couple of recent papers argue that the most likely scenario is a sort of mixture of these two — life began in hot springs, but the hot springs were on land, not deep under the sea.

    Some of the reasons why this may be the most likely origin of life:

    * Chemical reactions would be driven by UV light from the sun,
    * And also from interaction of hydrogen-rich subsurface material and more oxidised material from the atmosphere
    * Cycles of wetting and drying could make polymerisation more likely
    * An environment containing geysers/springs and pools could enable compounds to interact in a diversity of ways
    * Compared to other suggested sites, the chemical composition of environments like this seems better match for composition of living cells today

    Origin of Life’s Building Blocks in Carbon- and Nitrogen-Rich Surface Hydrothermal Vents

    TERRESTRIAL HOT SPRINGS AND THE ORIGIN OF LIFE: IMPLICATIONS FOR THE SEARCH
    FOR LIFE BEYOND EARTH.


    A Terrestrial Hot Spring Setting for the Origin of Life? Darwin’s Warm Little Pond revisited

    The word "terrestrial" in these titles means "terrestrial" as contrasted to "marine", not "terrestrial" as contrasted to "extra-terrestrial".

    I used the word "newish" in the thread title because I think there have been suggestions like this before. What's new is the level of detail researchers have been going into, to see how viable or not a scenario like this may be...
    Last edited by Colin Robinson; 2019-Sep-08 at 10:53 AM.

  2. #2
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    I like vorticity as a forcing action. I once saw footage of a tornado in MN (1986) with two suction vortices in a double helix shape.
    A tornadic thunderstorm is just an updraft--same as a smoker on the sea floor.

    Speaking of smoking--or should I say...vaping:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI1fjw3z74g

    I can see organics spun up this way--and perhaps getting pulled into a hot spring to percolate a bit more..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Robinson View Post
    ... from hot springs deep under the ocean?
    That's one life-in the-oceans theory. Another is that life began in tidal pools, where nutrients brought in during high tide were concentrated when the tide went out. But OK, there's plenty of room at the origin-of-life table.

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    Maybe different steps in the process happened at different places?
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    Maybe different steps in the process happened at different places?
    Errr... how would that work, exactly?

    I mean, in the tidal pool theory, certainly the nutrients came from the sea, which might have welled up from sea floor vents, and down rivers from mountains.


    But the requirements for life I'd say are distinct from the event of biogenesis, so anything that was not already life would be considered a precondition, like hydocarbon building blocks.

    In the panspermia hypothesis, amino acids could have come to Earth on comets. Does that count as a "step"? Or as a "resource"?
    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2019-Sep-17 at 07:46 PM.

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    The tidal pool would have to come in at the last.

    Biology by itself only takes you so far back. Blind chemistry alone? Only so far forward.

    There has to be a mechanical forcing somehow.

    We cook when we heat, stir, etc.

    Each smoker makes an updraft. A tornadic supercell is an up draft. Earth was hotter in the past--so more smokers, stronger tides--very dynamic. We learned about chemosynth' and such.

    But the warm pond model where something just kind of happened--I think that is why so many religious people wander off--because it sounds like replacing one miracle with another.

    Now, a violent planet not kind to current life is exactly what you need to spawn life. The more smokers, the greater the tides--the more these "bits" can solve for life--like how Unilever "evolved" soap nozzles
    https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/...r-god-complex/

    Now here is the key. Violent tides throw some goo that is just starting to evolve into a gentle tide pool before the same blind forces can rip it all apart again.

    Then it can breathe a little as it were, and take hold in a more quiet restful area.

    A cycle of alternating dynamism and quiescence...a biological check and rally. That's the key, I think.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    Maybe different steps in the process happened at different places?
    Right. Currents dragged various molecules through an array of environments, each rich in its own chemicals and temperature and light levels. Like how proto-humans and archaic humans came and went in and out of Africa for a million years before finally forming modern Homo Sapiens with all its mix of characteristics.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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