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  1. #1
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    Scientific evidence of Anthropogenic Climate Change and Global warming revisited

    The following details are the results of the tracking of 3 discarded aerospace Rocket Bodies from sovereign country sponsored enterprises, that have been falling from great heights outside of Australian sovereign territory to low heights within Australian sovereign borders in very short time spans during our recent historic climate change events, that started after mid November 2019. All of these Rocket Bodies have either re-entered at the time of this post or are expected to re-enter within the same one week period by the US Strategic Command.

    The following falling tracked space junk contributed to over 250mm-300mm (over 10-12 inches) of rainfall in a short timespan, to parts of South East Queensland Australia in the mid evening and morning of the 17th and 18th of January 2020, that caused much flooding damage. The Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) should/must/does use this information to make their accurate projections for our recent historic large heatwave/rainfall events and their scientists and other global scientists should also be able to verify this, or provide more accurate evidence for these offenses, and identify/reproduce the true drivers behind these events, that have effectively fanned our dire national bushfires and flooding emergencies over the last month, and have also killed many hundreds of thousands of native and domestic animals, destroyed many thousands of forest acres and grasslands and caused much economic damage to our sovereign nation, from their own data sets.

    The projected offenses below may change as the actual locations and altitudes will change as new or more accurate future/past measurements are recorded/revealed, all of the projections/space junk plots referred to below are from the Satview.org real time tracker and are attached as image files within the 3 pages of this OP. I have included the projected events as the Australian BOM predicts more rain and storms on these days and I have included the last event as it was in the area at the time, as it will be in the near future, and some of the current and projected data may be incorrectly recorded on Satview.org.

    The offending space junk Rocket Bodies and all the evidence in this very first presented instance, were produced from reproduce-able tracking maps and past/future plots/projections, and are as follows:

    (1) KZ-1A R/C - PRC Rocket Body - Peoples Republic of China - Launched on November 13th 2019 from Jiquan Satellite Launch Centre CHINA - Re-entered on January 18th 2020 at 05:00am AEST

    - Date, Time (AEST), Altitude, Where, Total Altitude drop, Total Altitude drop time
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KZ-1A RB - 10-05pm 17th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24803
    -17-01-2020, 10:05pm, 440.88km, South Atlantic near Antarctica
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KZ-1A RB - 10-35pm 17th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24804
    -17-01-2020, 10:35pm, 180.86km, Australia, 260.02km, 30 minutes

    (2) CZ-3B R/C - PRC Rocket Body - Peoples Republic of China - Launched on November 18th 2019 from Xichang Space Centre CHINA- Projected Re-entry on January 22nd 2020 at 1:20am AEST +/- 95 minutes

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB.jpg 
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ID:	24809

    - Date, Time (AEST), Altitude, Where, Total Altitude drop, Total Altitude drop time
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 08-20pm 17th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24810
    - 17-01-2020, 08:20pm, 500.19km, Africa west coast
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 09-05pm 17th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24811
    - 17-01-2020, 09:05pm, 125.41km, Australia, 374.78km, 45 minutes

    OP continued on page 2 due to page image limit
    Last edited by LaurieAG; 2020-Jan-20 at 05:36 PM. Reason: Layout, clarification, remove extra title

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    (2) CZ-3B R/C - PRC Rocket Body - Continued

    - Projected Date, Time (AEST), Altitude, Where, Total Altitude drop, Total Altitude drop time
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 04-25pm 20th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24812
    - 20-01-2020, 04:25pm, 500.36km, Africa
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 04-55pm 20th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24813
    - 20-01-2020, 04:55pm, 227.42km, Australia, 272.94km, 30 minutes

    - Projected Date, Time (AEST), Altitude, Where, Total Altitude drop, Total Altitude drop time
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 04-35pm 21st AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24814
    - 21-01-2020, 04:35pm, 500.36km, Africa
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ-3B RB - 05-05pm 21st AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24815
    - 21-01-2020, 05:05pm, 254.88km, Australia, 245.48km, 30 minutes

    OP continued on page 3 due to page image limit.
    Last edited by LaurieAG; 2020-Jan-20 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Layout, corrections

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    (3) PSLB R/C - ISRO Rocket Body - INDIA - Launched on April 1st????? 2019 from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharicota INDIA - Projected Re-entry on January 24 at 01:00am AEST 2020 +/- 95 minutes

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PSLV RB.jpg 
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ID:	24816

    - Date, Time (AEST), Altitude, Where, Total Altitude drop, Total Altitude drop time
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PSLV RB - 00-30am 18th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24817
    - 18-01-2020, 00:30am, 210.75km, Africa
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PSLV RB - 01-05am 18th AEST.jpg 
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ID:	24818
    - 18-01-2020, 01:05am, 198.86km, Australia, 11.89km, 35 minutes

    End of OP.
    Last edited by LaurieAG; 2020-Jan-20 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Layout

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    Wait a minute, hold the bus -- some of these spacecraft have not even reentered yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    (2) CZ-3B R/C - PRC Rocket Body - Peoples Republic of China - Launched on November 18th 2019 from Xichang Space Centre CHINA- Projected Re-entry on January 22nd 2020 at 1:20am AEST +/- 95 minutes
    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    (3) PSLB R/C - ISRO Rocket Body - INDIA - Launched on April 1st????? 2019 from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharicota INDIA - Projected Re-entry on January 24 at 01:00am AEST 2020 +/- 95 minutes
    Well done! You fooled us all. Well done. Here I wasted all this time refuting evidence that was wrong to begin with! Hats off to you on your little trick.

    NEVER add events that haven't happened to your evidence.
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Jan-20 at 11:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    Wait a minute, hold the bus -- some of these spacecraft have not even reentered yet!

    Well done! You fooled us all. Well done. Here I wasted all this time refuting evidence that was wrong to begin with! Hats off to you on your little trick.

    NEVER add events that haven't happened to your evidence.
    Roger, that's why I asked you to do me the common courtesy of actually going to the trouble of reading what I have posted in my OP multiple times, because it's obvious that you have only done so now.

    That's not a trick in anyway on my behalf and I am confident enough to make projections that are backed up by scientific evidence and have been proven accurate already due to my long term professional experience with applied science.

    Please do me a further courtesy of reading all of my responses to previous posts before this one so that the people who are following this thread don't get bogged down in multiple responses to the same things that they don't really need to know about anyway. If they really want to know more then they can follow the links I have posted in their own time and ask further questions in science forums like Cosmoquest.

    Incidentally, here's a link to a thread I created about Tiangong 1's re-entry. I projected an accurate re-entry time based on very simple principles, to within half an hour, around 1 month before it came down and posted this thread in the Education section of this forum below.

    https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthr...Class-vehicles

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    You think reentering space junk contributes to rainfall and heat waves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VQkr View Post
    You think reentering space junk contributes to rainfall and heat waves?
    What do you make of the evidence presented?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    What do you make of the evidence presented?
    Was that a yes or a no?

    I think you are confused about the weather vs. climate. And orbital dynamics. And correlation vs causality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VQkr View Post
    Was that a yes or a no?

    I think you are confused about the weather vs. climate. And orbital dynamics. And correlation vs causality.
    So you don't have any real scientific comments to make about the evidence presented? Please read my previous post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    So you don't have any real scientific comments to make about the evidence presented? Please read my previous post.
    If you don't like the fact that people keep pointing out that you don't understand the difference between "climate" and "weather" maybe you should (a) admit it is true and (b) ask a moderator to change the title of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    So you don't have any real scientific comments to make about the evidence presented? Please read my previous post.
    Correlation vs causality is a scientific comment. For your hypothesis to be taken seriously, you would need to use accurate language, present your ideas clearly, and provide falsifiable predictions.

    For example, I take it as a given that somewhere within a few hundred km of these upcoming reentries, some sort of extreme weather event or wildfire will occur. Your prediction is too generic to be falsifiable, therefore it is not science. For example, if you took a much larger sample size and plotted rainfall under the reentry path as a function of reentry kinetic energy, you could show if a correlation seemed to appear.

    Having a proposed physical mechanism by which reentering space junk could affect the weather would be helpful as well.

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    Australia was hit by no less than Skylab in 1979, but that created no chaotic weather. Did kill a rabbit, though.

    https://www.space.com/21092-skylab-s...is-photos.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    Australia was hit by no less than Skylab in 1979, but that created no chaotic weather. Did kill a rabbit, though.

    https://www.space.com/21092-skylab-s...is-photos.html
    Skylab didn't drop 374.78km in 45 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    Skylab didn't drop 374.78km in 45 minutes.
    Great. You have a mass and a velocity. Now calculate the kinetic energy. Compare that number to the kinetic energy in a hurricane. Or the entire atmosphere of earth. Revert with the results of your calculations. Include your workings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
    Great. You have a mass and a velocity. Now calculate the kinetic energy. Compare that number to the kinetic energy in a hurricane. Or the entire atmosphere of earth. Revert with the results of your calculations. Include your workings.
    While I may have the necessary professional qualifications to write satellite tracking programs and also have the skills required to interpret the data resulting from running these programs and identifying and analysing interesting data patterns that are produced by these programs for further bulk analysis that is not the purpose of this OP.

    That is why I have excluded all of the 'under the bonnet' calculations and have provided links to their technical details for people who are interested and have only referred to the specific patterns that I have identified in the OP by presenting a text summary of the data used in the body of the OP and the images with the technical information attached if you want to verify what I have stated is true.

    A note to those following this thread.

    This must be really hard to read for people who don't have the necessary qualifications to write this software but who want to understand the basic principles involved in what I have put in my OP. I must sincerely apologise to those people who have been following this thread and have actually bothered to look at the images and have verified that the things I state in my OP are true because I had no intention of dragging you into a technical swamp of quicksand.

    I will start reporting the posts of people who continually ignore the contents of my OP as presented and just want to drag everything into this technical swamp in future so that the people who would genuinely like to understand what I am saying can learn for themselves by seeing and doing what I have done. It's just not fair to bog you down with mistrust issues over the competency of the scientists and IT professionals who have developed the tracking software used when this has absolutely nothing to do with the concepts I have presented. I feel you should have confidence in the Satview software and the results presented in the OP due to their long term involvement and partnership with the US Strategic Command and the confidence they obviously have between each other.

    As an IT professional with over 30 years of experience, an Applied Computer Scientist if you like, I find this type of unprofessional behaviour childish, very unprofessional and just a crude trollish form of ad hominism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    I will start reporting the posts of people who continually ignore the contents of my OP as presented and just want to drag everything into this technical swamp in future so that the people who would genuinely like to understand what I am saying can learn for themselves by seeing and doing what I have done.

    Please do not go down this path.
    All comments made in red are moderator comments. Please, read the rules of the forum here, the special rules for the ATM section here and conspiracy theories. If you think a post is inappropriate, don't comment on it in thread but report it using the /!\ button in the lower left corner of each message. But most of all, have fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    … I will start reporting the posts of people who continually ignore the contents of my OP as presented and just want to drag everything into this technical swamp …
    You are entitled - in fact, encouraged - to Report problematic posts. However, you must realize that posing questions - even "technically swampy" ones - is a part of ATM's purpose. You need to address relevant questions in a timely manner. If you feel the question is not relevant to your OP, say so and ask for clarification/explanation.

    As an IT professional with over 30 years of experience, an Applied Computer Scientist if you like, I find this type of unprofessional behaviour childish, very unprofessional and just a crude trollish form of ad hominism ...
    Then Report it. Don't bring it up in-thread.

    This must be really hard to read for people who don't have the necessary qualifications to write this software ...
    You do recognize the irony that this is a bit "trollish?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post

    It's just not fair to bog you down with mistrust issues over the competency of the scientists and IT professionals who have developed the tracking software used when this has absolutely nothing to do with the concepts I have presented. I feel you should have confidence in the Satview software and the results presented in the OP due to their long term involvement and partnership with the US Strategic Command and the confidence they obviously have between each other.
    I did a search and up to now, you have been the only poster that has mentioned ”Satview” in thread. Nor have I seen anyone argue about the competency of its developers. Your ATM claims are the issue here, not the software you are using. Perhaps you should read our posts.

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    Roger's reminder of Skylab's fall in Australia makes an important point: For this to be considered scientific evidence, you need to include all the other space junk that has fallen to Earth over the years. Otherwise, it's just cherry picking. And, what is the proposed mechanism for weather alteration by this falling stuff?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torsten View Post
    Roger's reminder of Skylab's fall in Australia makes an important point: For this to be considered scientific evidence, you need to include all the other space junk that has fallen to Earth over the years. Otherwise, it's just cherry picking. And, what is the proposed mechanism for weather alteration by this falling stuff?
    I have provided specific verifiable scientific evidence and have also made predictions based on this existing evidence by making projections that are already supported by the longer term rainfall models produced by Australia's Bureau of Meteorology scientists and physicists. It is called the scientific method and theories like this get proven when other scientists go out and search for other situations where up 3 different uncontrolled Rocket Bodies can be found dropping swiftly and sharply over the same geographic area around the same time as extreme Climate events.

    That's just how science is supposed to work.
    Last edited by LaurieAG; 2020-Jan-20 at 07:09 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Even if falling space junk could influence rainfall (which is not impossible, but is not well supported by the evidence presented) I don't see how it is relevant to global climate change. Are you suggesting that the rate at which stuff falls to earth correlates with global temperature change?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Even if falling space junk could influence rainfall (which is not impossible, but is not well supported by the evidence presented) I don't see how it is relevant to global climate change. Are you suggesting that the rate at which stuff falls to earth correlates with global temperature change?
    I am suggesting that the people who build rocket Bodies that land themselves already know about these problems but they haven't bothered to tell the people that don't have rocket Bodies that land themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    The following details are the results of the tracking of 3 discarded aerospace Rocket Bodies from sovereign country sponsored enterprises, that have been falling from great heights outside of Australian sovereign territory to low heights within Australian sovereign borders in very short time spans during our recent historic climate change events, that started after mid November 2019.
    What do you mean by “climate change event”?

    The following falling tracked space junk contributed to over 250mm-300mm (over 10-12 inches) of rainfall in a short timespan, to parts of South East Queensland Australia in the mid evening and morning of the 17th and 18th of January 2020, that caused much flooding damage.
    Are you claiming space junk caused the flooding? What would be the mechanism? Do you think meteors are doing the same thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    What do you mean by “climate change event”?
    Man made Climate Change does things like this to our climate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Are you claiming space junk caused the flooding? What would be the mechanism? Do you think meteors are doing the same thing?
    I have presented evidence of falling Rocket bodies that don't land themselves, fall very quickly and drop long distances, exactly around the times that extreme climate events have occurred in Australia over the past week and month. It is called Anthropogenic Climate Change, or man made Climate Change and I have made no mention of meteorites whatsoever in my OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    I have presented evidence of falling Rocket bodies that don't land themselves, fall very quickly and drop long distances, exactly around the times that extreme climate events have occurred in Australia over the past week and month. It is called Anthropogenic Climate Change, or man made Climate Change and I have made no mention of meteorites whatsoever in my OP.
    You seem to be confusing weather with climate. You have presented insufficient evidence that these events affected the weather (as others have noted; just a few cherry-picked correlations).

    Climate change has taken place over many decades. It is very obviously not caused by a couple of recent rockets crashing to Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    You seem to be confusing weather with climate. You have presented insufficient evidence that these events affected the weather (as others have noted; just a few cherry-picked correlations).

    Climate change has taken place over many decades. It is very obviously not caused by a couple of recent rockets crashing to Earth.
    My first prediction based on the low point of these Rocket Body orbits being overhead has worked out correctly. You obviously haven't bothered to read the OP as if you did you would know that the latest news is the second one comes down in 5 hours and 15 mins from now per Satview.org and the third comes down on Thursday. Please give me the common courtesy of actually reading the OP and looking at the attached images in it before you comment further.

    http://www.satview.org/?sat_id=41912U

    I obviously don't have the larger computers and databases that our own BOM scientists have access to so I have hilighted patterns that can be explored by people who do have access to the data and equipment necessary. How can you make those comments if you have never searched for occurrences of 3 Rocket Bodies converging at the low points of their eliptical orbits over the same location for a week. Another coincidence is that the past weeks 7 day rainfall totals on the cable weather report this afternoon shows a large red smudge over South East Queensland while the rest of Australia has had relatively little rain in comparison.

    I have also held Applied Science qualifications for around 28 years and most of my work has been related to communicating with both relatively non technical people and very technical people at an equal level so I always strive to seek a happy medium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    My first prediction based on the low point of these Rocket Body orbits being overhead has worked out correctly. You obviously haven't bothered to read the OP as if you did you would know that the latest news is the second one comes down in 5 hours and 15 mins from now per Satview.org and the third comes down on Thursday. Please give me the common courtesy of actually reading the OP and looking at the attached images in it before you comment further.

    http://www.satview.org/?sat_id=41912U

    I obviously don't have the larger computers and databases that our own BOM scientists have access to so I have hilighted patterns that can be explored by people who do have access to the data and equipment necessary. How can you make those comments if you have never searched for occurrences of 3 Rocket Bodies converging at the low points of their eliptical orbits over the same location for a week. Another coincidence is that the past weeks 7 day rainfall totals on the cable weather report this afternoon shows a large red smudge over South East Queensland while the rest of Australia has had relatively little rain in comparison.

    I have also held Applied Science qualifications for around 28 years and most of my work has been related to communicating with both relatively non technical people and very technical people at an equal level so I always strive to seek a happy medium.
    And, again, none of this has any connection to climate change.

    You are talking about weather patterns, not climate. (I doubt there is any effect on the weather either, for reasons others have explained.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    Man made Climate Change does things like this to our climate?



    I have presented evidence of falling Rocket bodies that don't land themselves, fall very quickly and drop long distances, exactly around the times that extreme climate events have occurred in Australia over the past week and month.
    [my bold] The rentry of any craft expends the same amount of energy, though the distribution of that energy is far less concentrated than during a crash event. It's reasonable to connect two dots and call it a line but there are hundreds of other dots that, when connected, do less than the results from a rain dance, perhaps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    Man made Climate Change does things like this to our climate?
    That is still unclear to me. By “climate change event” do you mean weather events that are suspected to be affected by climate change (like the recent Australian issues)? Do you mean events (like your claims about space junk reentry) that you believe would cause climate change? Something else?

    I have presented evidence of falling Rocket bodies that don't land themselves, fall very quickly and drop long distances, exactly around the times that extreme climate events have occurred in Australia over the past week and month. It is called Anthropogenic Climate Change, or man made Climate Change and I have made no mention of meteorites whatsoever in my OP.
    But why haven’t you considered meteors? Off hand, meteors entering the atmosphere would seem to be very similar to spacecraft reentry, with much more total mass entering on a daily basis, in many cases much more energetic events too. What is so special about man-made space junk reentry?

    It seems to me that you would need to consider possible mechanisms and how (or if) they could cause or dramatically affect large scale weather events, and then consider whether such mechanisms would apply to all objects entering the atmosphere or somehow be unique to space junk reentry before you could exclude meteors.

    My strong suspicion is that if you do consider meteors, space junk entry would be lost in the noise of total events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    My strong suspicion is that if you do consider meteors, space junk entry would be lost in the noise of total events.
    This was my thinking also, but I tried out my Devil's Advocate hat, just for the exercise.

    How do meteors differ from space junk in terms of potential impact?

    1. Total mass: Overwhelmingly slanted to meteorites, thus effect of space junk should be close to zero.
    2. Velocity (and thus total energy dissipated): Substantially greater for meteorites, thus effect of space junk likely to be insignificant.
    3. Composition: Space junk varied, primarily metallic with high concentrations of some elements. Effects undetermined.

    If LaurieAG wishes to argue for an influence of space junk the mechanism would probably have to be found with respect to composition. Nothing feasible leaps out at me.

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