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Thread: Europa and the chance of underground oceanic life

  1. #1
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    Europa and the chance of underground oceanic life

    To start things off, this view is, to me, entirely too optimistic and misleading. YMMV. Squid or octopus life?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac.../#541474d93cb3
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Feb-07 at 07:18 PM.
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    To start things off, this view is, to me, entirely too optimistic and misleading. YMMV. Squid or octopus life?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac.../#541474d93cb3
    I completely agree. I have lost count of the times on this and other forums I have made the observation that, to extrapolate from a sample size of one is madness. And that's all we have - one example of a biosphere.

    Grady may be an optimist, or she saw an opportunity to promote Liverpool Hope University, or it's a hangover from her time at ESA. One doesn't try to get a budget for a mission to investigate possible life on Europa with the line, "It's a real outside chance, and I doubt we'll find anything, but why not give it a go?"

  3. #3
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    Could sea creatures under Europa's surface be GIANTS ? It's possible.

    https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/c...pas-icy-shell/

    And what did science fiction say about this possibility?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Do...s_of_His_Mouth
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Apr-08 at 07:21 PM.
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  4. #4
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    Could abyssal "superstring" colony-creatures live under Europa's surface, like this creature found on Earth?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...al/ar-BB12kYcJ
    https://phys.org/news/2020-04-specie...-deep-sea.html
    QUOTE: "An estimated 150-foot siphonophore— seemingly the longest animal ever recorded was discovered during a month-long scientific expedition exploring the submarine canyons near Ningaloo. Additionally, up to 30 new underwater species were made by researchers from the Western Australian Museum aboard Schmidt Ocean Institute's research vessel Falkor. The discovery of the massive gelatinous string siphonophore—a floating colony of tiny individual zooids that clone themselves thousands of times into specialized bodies that string together to work as a team—was just one of the unique finds among some of the deepest fish and marine invertebrates ever recorded for Western Australia."
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Apr-10 at 09:08 PM.
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  5. #5
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    I'm not physicist / biologist, so please contradict me if I'm wrong, but I there are two major problems with life on Europa:

    1) The immense pressure. First, you have a gigantically thick ice layer of 15-25 kilometres that weighs a lot and puts pressure on the water below.
    2) Even immediatelly under the surface of the ice, the temperature can still be quite cold (not freezing, but just above), but it probably lacks nutrients. The only place you're likely to find them is very deep below the surface, where you get significant warmth coming from what I believe could be thermal vents from Europa's active core. But the pressure at that depth could likely be enormous and even if life did form, I somehow doubt it would be anything more complex than very simple multicellular life such as protozoa or similar.

    Again, I'm probably wrong but I'm curios to know what more knowledgeable people than me have to say about this.

  6. #6
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    Weird mystery of watery plumes on Europa may hint at 'stealth particles'. (No alien microbes ending up on surface?)
    By Nola Taylor Redd 6 hours ago

    https://www.space.com/europea-plumes...s-mystery.html

    QUOTE: "In 2012, the Hubble Space Telescope caught a glimpse of a faint plume of material at the southern pole of Jupiter's moon, Europa. Since then, the moon has provided faint glimmers of plumes, hinting that material from its icy interior ocean could be jetting into space. Now, a new study thatcombed images of the moon to hunt for signs of material on the Europanlandscape, only to find no obvious indications of the eruptions...

    "Plumes on icy bodies usually produce a range of particle sizes," Schenk told Space.com via email. Gravity pulls the largest and most massive of the particles back to the surface. "These particles are always different from the surface in some way, either by composition and color or by particle size and hence apparent brightness," he said. "So we expected to see some sort of anomalous brightness or color signature near the sources, wherever they may be."

    "But Schenk found no variations in brightness or composition that might indicate ocean material might have ended up on the surface of the moon. The surprising lack of variations could mean that plume activity was relatively continuous over the three decades of mapping, the exuded particles blending together over time with no obvious differences. Another option is that the plumes produced "stealth" deposits not visible with the available instruments. Finally, the plumes themselves could be atypical, not really plumes at all but something unseen on other worlds."

    NOTE: So, either the subsurface ocean is not connected to the surface as we thought, making it easy to find if Europan critters exist, or the ocean is not what we thought it was.
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

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    error
    Last edited by Roger E. Moore; 2020-Apr-18 at 01:10 PM. Reason: accidentally copied previous link
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrith View Post
    I'm not physicist / biologist, so please contradict me if I'm wrong, but I there are two major problems with life on Europa:

    1) The immense pressure. First, you have a gigantically thick ice layer of 15-25 kilometres that weighs a lot and puts pressure on the water below.
    2) Even immediatelly under the surface of the ice, the temperature can still be quite cold (not freezing, but just above), but it probably lacks nutrients. The only place you're likely to find them is very deep below the surface, where you get significant warmth coming from what I believe could be thermal vents from Europa's active core. But the pressure at that depth could likely be enormous and even if life did form, I somehow doubt it would be anything more complex than very simple multicellular life such as protozoa or similar.

    Again, I'm probably wrong but I'm curios to know what more knowledgeable people than me have to say about this.
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  9. #9
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    1) The immense pressure. First, you have a gigantically thick ice layer of 15-25 kilometres that weighs a lot and puts pressure on the water below.
    I'm not a physicist either but whether it's a thick layer ice or just deeper liquid water it's still roughly weights the same and applies the same pressure to the water below.

    As for the life down below, I'm not a marine biologist either but life seems to adjust (adapt) to the conditions and environment in which it evolves.
    Last edited by Spacedude; 2020-Apr-20 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrith View Post
    I'm not physicist / biologist, so please contradict me if I'm wrong, but I there are two major problems with life on Europa:

    1) The immense pressure. First, you have a gigantically thick ice layer of 15-25 kilometres that weighs a lot and puts pressure on the water below.
    2) Even immediatelly under the surface of the ice, the temperature can still be quite cold (not freezing, but just above), but it probably lacks nutrients. The only place you're likely to find them is very deep below the surface, where you get significant warmth coming from what I believe could be thermal vents from Europa's active core. But the pressure at that depth could likely be enormous and even if life did form, I somehow doubt it would be anything more complex than very simple multicellular life such as protozoa or similar.

    Again, I'm probably wrong but I'm curios to know what more knowledgeable people than me have to say about this.
    We once thought deep sea floor life on our planet would be limited to simple forms for the same reasons. But the life there is almost as complex and varied as surface life.

    There's no physical reason that I know of why life can't achieve complex forms at Europa-deep pressures.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  11. #11
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    Improved NASA images of Europa's terrain continue the discussion on whether there is life beneath the surface.

    https://dailygalaxy.com/2020/05/what...ng-there-moon/
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  12. #12
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    More proof that water geysers erupt on Europa.

    https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/N...uropa_999.html
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

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