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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #2071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Why don’t they just have a refrigerator magnet ready, and see if sticks to you?


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  2. #2072
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    You know, if the vaccine really did include tracking chips, none of this would be necessary.
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  3. #2073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Why don’t they just have a refrigerator magnet ready, and see if sticks to you?

    Now that's just silly. You have to use a key, because special non-ferrous magnetism!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    My wife's rheumatologist has recommended she have a third shot, due to an immunosuppresive medication she takes. Probably tomorrow.
    Our county is having the most cases it has ever seen for the duration of the pandemic.
    I'm pretty sure I'll get the same recommendation from my Rheumy during our next visit in October and for the same reason. That's in good time since we hit the 8-month mark in December.
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  5. #2075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Now that's just silly. You have to use a key, because special non-ferrous magnetism!
    Of course. Everyone knows that fridge magnets only work on wrought or cast iron microchips.
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  6. #2076
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    A number of lowland gorillas at Zoo Atlanta have teated positive for Covid19.

    https://www.gpb.org/news/2021/09/10/...e-for-covid-19

    Zoo Atlanta shared the news on Friday that several of its lowland gorillas have come down with COVID-19.

    "Gorilla Care Team members observed coughing, nasal discharge, and minor changes in appetite in several members of the gorilla population," the zoo said in a statement. "Upon the onset of these signs, the Animal Care and Veterinary Teams immediately pursued testing for SARS-CoV-2."

    The zoo sent test samples to the the Athens Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory at the University of Georgia, where they tested presumptively positive.
    I read elsewhere that Zoo medical staff took nasal swabs and collected fecal samples for testing. I presume the fecal samples were taken from the habitat floor. I hope.

  7. #2077
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    It also mentions they are waiting to receive a COVID-19 vaccine made specifically for animals. I was wondering if there is any reason the human vaccines wouldn’t work. I’d expect a gorilla’s immune response to be very similar to a human’s, since they are so close genetically, but I’m sure you would have to test if there was some important detail that would cause issues with these vaccines.

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  8. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    A number of lowland gorillas at Zoo Atlanta have teated positive for Covid19.

    https://www.gpb.org/news/2021/09/10/...e-for-covid-19



    I read elsewhere that Zoo medical staff took nasal swabs and collected fecal samples for testing. I presume the fecal samples were taken from the habitat floor. I hope.
    The mention of Gorillas at Zoo Atlanta reminded me of Ivan, who I saw several times when I lived in (or visited) Tacoma. A sad tale.
    Also sad are the stories linked at the end of the one at that link. Holy cow, but people are stupid. Including in my liberal little county where we had only a handful of Covid deaths in all of 2020 and are now having several daily; while morons are STILL protesting against masks and vaccines.
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    First day of school yesterday. I'm really hoping the massive line of parents won't be there every day and that a lot of those kids will be riding the bus after today. Zane will be riding the bus as soon as they've gotten things figured out for him. But they're apparently doing their best as social distancing, which is just not easy for kids his age, and he seems to have kept his mask on all day. Sandy's teacher says they're going to do their best, though there are also going to be at least a couple of kids with medical issues around masking. I'm deeply worried, but the kids have been having psychological issues from isolation. Zane had a problem with one of his classmates, but his teacher seems to be on top of it.
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    "You can't erase icing."

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    Meanwhile, I am astounded that there are still people who don't realize that children are indeed at serious risk, particularly with the Delta variant. Children are dying. Not only does the American Pediatrics Association say that hospitalizations in children are increasing exponentially, it seems that even kids with mild cases are becoming more likely to have long-term health problems.
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    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  11. #2081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Currently PICUs in the US are filled, which I'm pretty sure is "significant risk."
    (I didn’t want to post this related comment in the “amuses you” topic so brought it here.)

    I just read an article about another effect that is obvious in hindsight, but I didn’t think about initially - hospital related infections are up significantly because of the overcrowding and staff too busy to properly keep up with normal mitigation procedures.

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  12. #2082
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    I believe it. And when we took Zane to the ER last weekend, the person next to us had been waiting in the ER more than a day for a bed in the hospital itself--kids are likely having the same problem with their non-Covid health problems in that sense.
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    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  13. #2083
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    Just closing off on something discussed in the Covid sidebar on the "amuses" thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    My point is that the school interruptions are not a naturally-occurring result of the virus. They are decisions made by people. There'd have to be a reason to believe vaccination would affect the decision-making, which is (unfortunately) only tangentially related to the virus.
    Well, in the UK the reason to believe vaccination would affect the decision-making is that we're currently waiting for the Chief Medical Officers to decided, on the basis of the argument I outlined (among others), whether or not to offer vaccination to school-children generally.
    The CMOs recommended today that we proceed with vaccinating 12-15-year-olds (16-17 are already being vaccinated).
    Prof Chris Whitty, Chief Medical Officer for England, said it was a "difficult decision" but it would reduce disruption to children's education.
    He said absence from school "has been extraordinarily difficult for children", particularly in deprived areas. Extended disruption could cause mental health problems and have long term effects on life chances, he added.
    In the UK, the feeling had been that the risk/benefit ratio, vaccine versus Covid, was not clear-cut enough on its own to justify vaccinating children under 16. The CMOs were then asked to review the wider social benefits of vaccination, in particular the effects of reducing disruption to schooling.

    The problem with Delta in children is not that it's a more dangerous infection for them than previous variants, but that it's more infectious, and so spreads more readily and infects more children, leading to an increase in the number of critically ill children by that route. Vaccinations and contact quarantine are both routes to reducing transmission in schools, and the idea is that by increasing vaccination we can reduce the need for quarantines while keeping a lid on transmission. (This is already part of the CDC control recommendations in the USA.)

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  14. #2084
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    The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

    Related to a recent COVID “news” story, someone posted an image of a book with the title “The New England Journal of My Cousin’s Friend Who Lives in Trinidad”

    ETA context:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/yes-dr...esticles-claim
    Last edited by Extravoice; 2021-Sep-15 at 08:18 PM.
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  15. #2085
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    The Ministry of Health of Trinidad & Tobago actually took the time to try to find the guy. Shockingly, they could not.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  16. #2086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    The Ministry of Health of Trinidad & Tobago actually took the time to try to find the guy. Shockingly, they could not.
    It’s not like the Ministry of Health has any other issues to address :roll:

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ad-and-tobago/

    But seriously, are people so credulous as to accept a statement about a cousin’s friend in a foreign county at face value?
    If so, they may be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  17. #2087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    But seriously, are people so credulous as to accept a statement about a cousin’s friend in a foreign county at face value?
    If so, they may be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn.
    It doesn't seem at all implausible to me. Given that there are millions of cases of epididymo-orchitis in the world every year, and billions of doses of vaccine being rolled out, it would be remarkable if a few young men didn't develop testicular swelling after vaccination. (And given the normal aetiology of that infection, the story of the cancelled wedding acquires a certain poignancy.)

    The error here is just the classic post hoc, propter hoc fallacy, rendered more plausible to the hard-of-thinking by the pre-existing conspiracy theory framework that tells us vaccines make people sterile.

    It would be nice if the T&T authorities did manage to track him down, so that he could get a treatable condition addressed before it (ironically enough) renders him sterile.

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  18. #2088
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    Oh, I can’t comment on the possibility of testicular swelling. But there is no way I’m accepting the word of “someone’s cousin’s friend” without independent confirmation.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Oh, I can’t comment on the possibility of testicular swelling. But there is no way I’m accepting the word of “someone’s cousin’s friend” without independent confirmation.
    I guess I just feel more comfortable with accepting the story at face value and pointing out that it doesn't mean what people think it means, rather than suggesting that someone is making stuff up. Fundamentally, the story fails to persuade us because it means nothing, rather than because it might be untrue. Debating whether or not we trust the report is just a distraction, and it opens one up to accusations of trying to poison the well.

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  20. #2090
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    The end of that story is that the poor man whose testicles became swollen was engaged and his fiancee called off the wedding because of it.

    A board certified urologist posted that there is no evidence of the vaccine causing testicular swelling, but one possible cause is an STD. Which provides some context to his claim and to the wedding being cancelled.

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  21. #2091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    The end of that story is that the poor man whose testicles became swollen was engaged and his fiancee called off the wedding because of it.

    A board certified urologist posted that there is no evidence of the vaccine causing testicular swelling, but one possible cause is an STD. Which provides some context to his claim and to the wedding being cancelled.
    Yes, that's where I was going when I wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    (And given the normal aetiology of that infection, the story of the cancelled wedding acquires a certain poignancy.)
    I was being so discrete as to be obscure, though.

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  22. #2092
    Right now like everywhere else the Covid rates have increased, NB has about 336 new cases and it might go up above the previous high. It is mostly among the unvaccinated, in northern NS most of the cases in one region is pretty much in group of unvaccinated. There are goin be requirements in NB where you have to show proof of vaccination in non essential businesses.
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    One of my slightly off-beat-things-believing co-workers keeps making a big deal of an inoculation technique involving drawing back into the needle a little before injecting the vaccine; something to do with detecting if a vein has been found. He claims it prevents side effects from injecting vaccine direct into the bloodstream. I have no idea if this is completely meaningless or what.

    Anyone got words?

    (Just wanting to know how to reply to him (or not).)
    Last edited by pzkpfw; 2021-Sep-17 at 04:48 AM.
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  24. #2094
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    Here’s an article that discusses aspiration for an intramuscular injection (note: pdf):

    https://ed-areyouprepared.com/wp-con...ramuscular.pdf

    A key quote:

    Take home: aspiration is NOT needed for IM injections if proper technique and location is used EXCEPT for the dorsogluteal site where it should be used.

    My understanding is that “dorsogluteal” refers to the buttocks, though it may be more specific than that (I do not pretend to have more than layman’s knowledge on medical matters).

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    Awesome, thanks.
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    Are the needles actually long enough to hit a vein? I imagine that the needle used for my COVID vaccination was smaller that my insulin needles. I honestly don't remember how big it was, but it seemed that it was smaller than whatever I use for insulin. (I have no idea how "big" my needles are. I guess "tiny" would described them nicely.) I've managed to ding something and bleed a drop or so from an injection every now and then, so I guess I could be hitting a vein. I'm probably less skilled at injections that anyone who has been trained to do it as a job function. I probably couldn't find a vein on purpose. I'm not terribly afraid of hitting a vein, should I be?

    What freaks me out is the titanic looking needles in stock footage for the news. For some reason they look about 4 inches long and go in 11 inches. Funny how trepidation works. I do have more anxiety about seeing someone else stuck with a needle than one actually going into me. That is super weird. It seriously bothers me.
    Solfe

  27. #2097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    Are the needles actually long enough to hit a vein? I imagine that the needle used for my COVID vaccination was smaller that my insulin needles. I honestly don't remember how big it was, but it seemed that it was smaller than whatever I use for insulin. (I have no idea how "big" my needles are. I guess "tiny" would described them nicely.) I've managed to ding something and bleed a drop or so from an injection every now and then, so I guess I could be hitting a vein. I'm probably less skilled at injections that anyone who has been trained to do it as a job function. I probably couldn't find a vein on purpose. I'm not terribly afraid of hitting a vein, should I be?

    What freaks me out is the titanic looking needles in stock footage for the news. For some reason they look about 4 inches long and go in 11 inches. Funny how trepidation works. I do have more anxiety about seeing someone else stuck with a needle than one actually going into me. That is super weird. It seriously bothers me.
    bitt
    I'm not particularly good at anatomy, but veins aren't so deep (I think arteries are deeper). On the front of my arm and the back of my hands, I can see the veins quite clearly. I guess the issue is how what kinds of veins there are in the outside of our arms where they do the injections. I'm guessing that there aren't many veins there (only capillary ones), because it probably makes sense in terms of self-defense to have the veins and arteries on the inside where they are less likely to hit things or be scratched/bitten. But this is just a guess.
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  28. #2098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Oh, I can’t comment on the possibility of testicular swelling. But there is no way I’m accepting the word of “someone’s cousin’s friend” without independent confirmation.
    However, we have ample evidence that plenty of people do.
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    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  29. #2099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    However, we have ample evidence that plenty of people do.
    We have some friends whose granddaughter is ~12 and her mother, a germophobic to the max, won't allow her daughter to be vaccinated for fear of ovary/uterus possible issues. Bothe parents and grandparents are all fully vaccinated.

  30. #2100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    One of my slightly off-beat-things-believing co-workers keeps making a big deal of an inoculation technique involving drawing back into the needle a little before injecting the vaccine; something to do with detecting if a vein has been found. He claims it prevents side effects from injecting vaccine direct into the bloodstream. I have no idea if this is completely meaningless or what.

    Anyone got words?

    (Just wanting to know how to reply to him (or not).)
    A lot of people who give intramuscular injections do aspirate before injection, though generally for a just a moment--the 5-10 seconds thing in Van Rijn's reference is something of a recipe for false positives, since what you're interested in is blood freely flowing back into the syringe on gentle aspiration, which would indicate that the tip of your needle is sitting completely inside a blood vessel. You can generally manage to get a little blood back into the hub of the needle if you aspirate vigorously for a while, but it's of no real significance--you have stuck a sharp thing into a well-perfused structure, after all.
    But the blood supply to muscles comes from pretty fixed locations, and the larger vessels are going to be at those locations, with vessels branching and rebranching into finer divisions as they spread outwards from the feeding artery and draining vein. So if you put your needle somewhere distant from the normal blood supply, you're exceedingly unlikely to hit a significantly large vessel. The normal site for Covid vaccination, fairly low above the insertion of the deltoid, is well away from the normal blood supply, which come in high up in the shoulder. Hence the fact that vaccinators are generally trained not to aspirate at that location, because any blood in the hub is likely to be a false positive, and people then get in a dither about what to do if they see a speck of blood in their syringe.
    That said, I do aspirate momentarily before vaccinating in the deltoid, because there's a piddly wee branch of the profunda brachii that supplies the very bottom end of the deltoid, and sometimes people manage to have weird anatomy with dominant vessels coming in by a route that's normally minor. I also once managed to freely aspirate blood from my own quadriceps muscle while administering my own Hep B vaccine--that was a comparatively large vessel in an unexpected location, and I now don't let anyone near my quads with a needle unless they're going to aspirate.

    So that's the general principle. The specific concern with Covid vaccination is that there's a pre-print report that intravenous administration of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine experimentally triggers an antibody reaction to platelets which might help explain the rare Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome seen after that vaccine.
    We show that intravenous but not intramuscular injection of ChAdOx1 nCov-19 triggers platelet-adenovirus aggregate formation and platelet activation. After intravenous injection, these aggregates are phagocytosed by macrophages in the spleen and platelet remnants are found in the marginal zone and follicles. This is followed by a pronounced B-cell response with the emergence of circulating antibodies binding to platelets.
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