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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    What I was hearing at one point was that the process was shortened partly because at least some of the manufacturers started gearing up for large-scale production before the results of the trials were in.

    So that was risky, if the vaccines didn't work or weren't safe, they'd have wasted a lot of money gearing up to produce something they're not going to produce after all. But since the trials went pretty well, this gamble paid off.

    That's what I heard at least. Unsourced. Can anyone confirm?
    I have heard the same thing and I found this reference about this from last September.

    Coronavirus vaccine developers working with the U.S. government are churning out doses of their experimental shots en masse, shifting to commercial production before clinical testing is complete in an effort to meet ambitious timelines for widespread distribution and vaccination.

    "All six of the vaccines we're working with are in industrial-scale manufacturing now," Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said in a Thursday interview on Fox Business. "We literally have millions of doses of vaccine already."
    Here is an NPR story about other things they did, such as using contract manufacturing.
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  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    I don't think any employers (even hospitals) - at least in the US - are mandating Covid vaccinations ...
    Several of the hospital systems in our area are requiring employees get vaccinated.
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  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Apparently a significant portion of US military personnel are declining the vaccine. When I "joined" just a couple of weeks shy of 50 years ago, that wasn't an option.
    "Joined" because it wasn't voluntary!
    Quote Originally Posted by geonuc View Post
    Like all older US veterans, I've had a ton of vaccines, and even more since my father was Army and we lived in some foreign countries. While I was in the Navy, I received the notorious swine flu vaccination. I was not asked for my consent.
    In my previous post, I was referring (in part) to vaccines I received in the military, beginning more than 40 years ago. Although it was an all-volunteer force by that time, mine weren't optional either. They were required to maintain deployment readiness. Refusing them was to refuse lawful orders and the bottom line was, if you weren't deployable, you weren't employable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    Obviously the vaccine from 50 years ago wasn't COVID - which ones did they require? Was it more tropical stuff (the timing and country suggest you might have been in Southeast Asia), or conventional stuff like polio and MMR? (The latter apparently became available about the same time.)
    I don't have my old vaccination record handy but as I recall, I received routine vaccinations for DPT, influenza, MMR, typhoid, and yellow fever. Later in my career, they added hepatitis A to the list. If I'd had to deploy to certain locations, I would've received vaccines specific to those areas, such as cholera and anthrax or malaria prophylaxis.
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  4. #1624
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    I'm just going to throw this link out here, just to confirm that what I said is (or, at least, recently was) a valid concern.
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    I'm just going to throw this link out here, just to confirm that what I said is (or, at least, recently was) a valid concern.
    This seems to mix two separate issue. One is whether to force anyone to have a vaccine, a second is whether any person, organisation of indeed country can refuse entry if not vaccinated. There is plenty of precedent for the latter, with older diseases. The justification is that vaccination protects both the visitor and the visited from a specific disease, at least at a significant level of protection.

    A real complication is that many view testing as the actual issue. Not proof of vaccination, but a recent test to show you are not at that time infected. This distinction is in practice very recent because fast tests have been developed with results in less than an hour, some much faster than thet. If people want to refuse to be tested, they can be expected to be excluded.

    Right now, nearly every visitor to UK must pay for two tests, at two and eight days plus self imposed quarantine. Regardless of vaccination status.
    sicut vis videre esto
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  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    This seems to mix two separate issue. One is whether to force anyone to have a vaccine, a second is whether any person, organisation of indeed country can refuse entry if not vaccinated. There is plenty of precedent for the latter, with older diseases. The justification is that vaccination protects both the visitor and the visited from a specific disease, at least at a significant level of protection.

    A real complication is that many view testing as the actual issue. Not proof of vaccination, but a recent test to show you are not at that time infected. This distinction is in practice very recent because fast tests have been developed with results in less than an hour, some much faster than thet. If people want to refuse to be tested, they can be expected to be excluded.

    Right now, nearly every visitor to UK must pay for two tests, at two and eight days plus self imposed quarantine. Regardless of vaccination status.
    I know of at least one 15 minute nasal swab test, family members have had it done. But I'm ignorant of the details and accuracy rates. It's relatively cheap but I'm not sure if it's covered by insurance.

    Who businesses can do business with gets into contentious areas, at least in the US. But yes, one can reasonably expect consequences for the choice not to be vaccinated.

    A quarantine is probably a good idea since it's not settled (as of last time I looked) whether vaccinated people can be carriers. I may be out of date on that.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    There is plenty of precedent for the latter, with older diseases.
    I recall that when I went to Zambia less than two decades ago, I was supposed to get yellow fever vaccination because there were three cases in the 1950s.
    People who live in glass houses, should get undressed in the dark.

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I know of at least one 15 minute nasal swab test, family members have had it done. But I'm ignorant of the details and accuracy rates. It's relatively cheap but I'm not sure if it's covered by insurance.

    Who businesses can do business with gets into contentious areas, at least in the US. But yes, one can reasonably expect consequences for the choice not to be vaccinated.

    A quarantine is probably a good idea since it's not settled (as of last time I looked) whether vaccinated people can be carriers. I may be out of date on that.
    It is good to know proper tests are being done at events with fore and after testing to see if transmission is an issue, there are two nasal swab tests being used here, one is a clever lateral flow of reagents in a little box like a pregnancy test, less accurate than the lab test which can come back in 30 minutes to a couple of days. Prices vary from free for certain workers like hauliers to 220 gbp as I recently had to pay to enter the uk for two posted tests with emailed results. But it is changing, it seems like, every week.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  9. #1629
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    A tweet today from one Scottish health authority:
    We can't quite believe we have to say this, but here goes: rising case numbers in Moray are not the result of people 'fooling' Lateral Flow Devices with tomato ketchup (or any other condiment for that matter).
    Words fail me.

    Grant Hutchison

  10. #1630
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    Apparently there were social media rumors that a LFT on ketchup produced a positive result. The real answer of course is that any results are irrelevant when testing something other than for which the LFT was designed.

  11. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    Apparently there were social media rumors that a LFT on ketchup produced a positive result. The real answer of course is that any results are irrelevant when testing something other than for which the LFT was designed.
    Yes, a man called Troy Edkins kicked it all off on Facebook, but at least his post is now flagged as "missing context".
    But the good people of Moray (currently the focus of a Covid outbreak) seem to have picked up the concept and run with it--hypothesizing both that large numbers of people in the area are deliberately faking positive LFT results, and that the magic effects of ketchup somehow transmit themselves to the subsequent confirmatory PCR tests.

    Grant Hutchison

  12. #1632
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    Well it is a rather versatile condiment. I wonder what the results would be for Worcestershire sauce?

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    Well it is a rather versatile condiment. I wonder what the results would be for Worcestershire sauce?
    Worcestershire sauce, when mixed with embalming fluid, causes zombies. So be careful.
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  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    A tweet today from one Scottish health authority:Words fail me.

    Grant Hutchison
    Iíll bite, why would someone want to fake a positive COVID test?
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    I’ll bite, why would someone want to fake a positive COVID test?
    Time off work. Mischief. Revenge. It's a thing.
    Beyond that, the thing going on here in Scotland is just a particularly fatuous conspiracy theory being circulated on social media by people who want to believe there isn't actually a Covid hotspot where they live.

    Grant Hutchison

  16. #1636
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    I got my second shot today. The first was nothing. This one has a mean little kick. My body is acting had the worst hay fever in the world. My forehead aches.

    I'm pretty sure I've smack my forehead on something at some point in my life, but I swear to god I've never really noticed forehead pain before this.
    Solfe

  17. #1637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    I’ll bite, why would someone want to fake a positive COVID test?
    Where I work you get 14 days off, paid. Usually, once. There are several people who have had 2 runs of 14 days off but only got paid for the first. A few of them have tried for three, but that gets you a stern talking to by HR.
    Solfe

  18. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I've had The Talk at work. "We issued every employee a digital thermometer. We now understand that the instruction sheets only addressed rectal useage. We checked with the manufacturer and determined that they are suitable for both oral or rectal readings. However, once you pick your option, it is really not advised that you switch options. At least not with the same device. You should continue to do what you were comfortable doing before this clarification. If anyone needs a replacement thermometer, please contact HR."
    I just found out who this person was. He's the manager of the call center who is not normally known for humor at work. He's a great guy.
    Solfe

  19. #1639
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    B.1.117 to B.1.618, India has many Covid variants https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsi...es/ar-BB1fYFrG Indian states impose stricter lockdowns as COVID deaths hit record high https://ca.investing.com/news/corona...-surge-2434302 Coronavirus: Another rare condition - Guillain-Barre syndrome - crops up in recipients of AstraZeneca vaccine https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world...a-vaccine.html COVID-19 variant cases exploding in Florida linked to dozens of new deaths https://cbs12.com/news/local/covid-1...-of-new-deaths The illegal mafia business of counterfeit fake vaccine passports? 'California bar owner charged with selling fake COVID-19 vaccination cards' https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-vaccine-cards Why India's coronavirus situation is so bad, according to experts https://www.foxnews.com/health/why-c...-india-experts 'I've never seen anything like this': Clarissa Ward on India Covid-19 crisis https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/202...-pkg-ac360.cnn

    More contagious Brazil coronavirus variant found in Dallas
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021...und-in-dallas/

    Japan and a fanless Olympics, people unhappy with the idea of games as COVID threat rises.
    Tokyo Olympics: Thousands demand games cancelled as Japan extends COVID state of emergency
    https://news.sky.com/story/thousands...ended-12299213
    As Olympics near, Japan extends a state of emergency in Tokyo due to COVID-19
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...yo/4986103001/

    Coronavirus third leading cause of death in Sweden last year
    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/cor...eden-last-year
    Covid-19 was the third leading cause of death in Sweden last year, behind cardiovascular disease and cancer.

    Australia bans return of residents and citizens from India, offenders face fines and prison
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/a...rison-n1266045

    Australian residents and citizens who have been in India within 14 days of the date they plan to return home will be banned
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...dia-offenders/

    The gov of Australia originally banned its own citizens from coming back from India's festivals, Aussies could have faced 5 yrs in jail if they returned home from India.

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...probe-14760592
    Australia to lift ban on citizens returning from India

    Vietnam reports first death in patient who received AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine https://uk.news.yahoo.com/vietnam-re...140900804.html A new mutation of the Brazilian COVID variant surfaces in Broward https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronav...outputType=amp India has passed a grim milestone of 20 million Covid-19 cases https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ional-lockdown

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
    up to date graphs
    Last edited by Launch window; 2021-May-08 at 11:38 AM.

  20. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I got my second shot today. The first was nothing. This one has a mean little kick. My body is acting had the worst hay fever in the world. My forehead aches.

    I'm pretty sure I've smack my forehead on something at some point in my life, but I swear to god I've never really noticed forehead pain before this.
    My first shot was nothing so I wasn't worried about the second. Now I am.

  21. #1641
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    Those of us on ďTeam J&JĒ donít know what you folks are talking about.
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  22. #1642
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    I could have chosen J&J but Modern has been around longer and seemed less risky.

  23. #1643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I could have chosen J&J but Modern has been around longer and seemed less risky.
    When I got my vaccination, choice wasnít an option. I was happy to get anything.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  24. #1644
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    I see that my "Moderna" got changed to "Modern". We need autocorrectors that read news websites in the background and update their word lists.

  25. #1645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I see that my "Moderna" got changed to "Modern". We need autocorrectors that read news websites in the background and update their word lists.
    I turned off autocorrect on my tablet because it was more often autoincorrect. The final straw was a “correction” that would have been quite embarrassing. Too often it wanted to “correct” technical terms like the ones we use all the time here, but aren’t in its dictionary.

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  26. #1646
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    I always turn of autocorrupt. It's wrong more often than it's right, and going back to correct the corrections breaks the flow of my thoughts.
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  27. #1647
    Right now Nova scotia has over 1600 active cases, with 165 new cases today, with 50 in the ICU. Here in New Brunswick we are down to 6 new cases today, and there is an municipal election tomorrow and I on standby to work as a spare, om region will have their election on a different day. There is actually a new officer for the elections just for Covid.
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  28. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe :
    "I got my second shot today. The first was nothing. This one has a mean little kick. My body is acting had the worst hay fever in the world. My forehead aches.I'm pretty sure I've smack my forehead on something at some point in my life, but I swear to god I've never really noticed forehead pain before this.


    Quote Chuck answered : "My first shot was nothing so I wasn't worried about the second. Now I am.

    Not to worry, my 1st Moderna shot was also a breeze, the 2nd shot was like having a mild hangover for 24 hours minus the nausea. My arm injection site did have a tennis ball sized rash and was sore but it all passed quickly.

  29. #1649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe :
    "I got my second shot today. The first was nothing. This one has a mean little kick. My body is acting had the worst hay fever in the world. My forehead aches.I'm pretty sure I've smack my forehead on something at some point in my life, but I swear to god I've never really noticed forehead pain before this.


    Quote Chuck answered : "My first shot was nothing so I wasn't worried about the second. Now I am.

    Not to worry, my 1st Moderna shot was also a breeze, the 2nd shot was like having a mild hangover for 24 hours minus the nausea. My arm injection site did have a tennis ball sized rash and was sore but it all passed quickly.
    I completely recovered in 48 hours. And the congestion ended long before that. It's really something when an ache is so unusually it doesn't register as pain but novelty.

    My son got the "peanut butter shot" at basic training. It's a load of stuff that feels like having angry peanut butter under your skin. They give it in the buttocks because you don't sit on that in basic training. Apparently, it precludes getting the COVID vaccine for weeks. I don't know the medical reason for it, but it could simply be a comfort thing. He'll get his COVID shot when leaving his training program which is a few weeks from now. They seemingly live in a rather large bubble for basic training and classes, so the risk is low and measurable.
    Solfe

  30. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I got my second shot today. The first was nothing. This one has a mean little kick. My body is acting had the worst hay fever in the world. My forehead aches.

    I'm pretty sure I've smack my forehead on something at some point in my life, but I swear to god I've never really noticed forehead pain before this.
    Two Moderna shots, side effects barely worth mentioning. Very very slight arm soreness after the first one; maybe slightly more arm soreness after the second one.

    After 14 days (today), I have supposedly reached full strength now. I had to restart my phone though, before our local app updated my status to fully vaccinated rather than "in progress".
    People who live in glass houses, should get undressed in the dark.

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