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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Usain Bolt's BMI is apparently 24.5. Dwayne Johnson's is 34.
    As a tall person who spent well over a decade in the "obese" range before getting down to "overweight" a month or two ago, I don't feel so bad now

    On the other hand, I don't look like Usain Bolt or Dwayne Johnson.
    So . . . does this look as bad as it looks?

  2. #1502
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    Ugh. Both daughter and son-in-law are going for testing today. Both are teachers, and got their first vaccine dose a little over a week ago. Yesterday, daughter had a bad headache, and today SIL has a fever.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    As a tall person who spent well over a decade in the "obese" range before getting down to "overweight" a month or two ago, I don't feel so bad now

    On the other hand, I don't look like Usain Bolt or Dwayne Johnson.
    It's a basic principle in medicine that anything that's easy to measure (pulse, blood pressure, BMI, etc) isn't actually measuring exactly what you'd want to measure in an ideal world. So there will always be outliers and exceptions, and the potential for the unwary being misled.
    I think more than half of medical training is actually about understanding the limitations of our measurements, summed up in the phrase "you treat the patient, not the number". It doesn't mean the measurements are bad or useless, just that they need understanding and caution in their interpretation.

    Grant Hutchison

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It's a basic principle in medicine that anything that's easy to measure (pulse, blood pressure, BMI, etc) isn't actually measuring exactly what you'd want to measure in an ideal world. So there will always be outliers and exceptions, and the potential for the unwary being misled.
    I think more than half of medical training is actually about understanding the limitations of our measurements, summed up in the phrase "you treat the patient, not the number". It doesn't mean the measurements are bad or useless, just that they need understanding and caution in their interpretation.
    I completely agree and hope I didn't seem to contradict that with my comment about BMI. I also agree that things like blood pressure and BMI are just population-wide statistics that can be useful in formulating guidelines but can't really be used for diagnosis on an individual level. It's like, if a person is lying on the ground motionless and their face is turning blue, you can reasonably assume that they have a medical problem, but if their blood sugar level is abnormally high it doesn't necessarily mean you need to treat them. BMI can be useful in the sense of a person like me who, while being relatively sedentary, has increased BMI under the COVID-19, and might consider getting more exercise.
    As above, so below

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I completely agree and hope I didn't seem to contradict that with my comment about BMI.
    Not at all. I was just trying to advance a caveat to Lord Kelvin's famous dictum:
    I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be.
    There's a corresponding unfortunate tendency for people to believe that if they can put a number to something, then they do understand it, and are doing science. And it seems to me that the less they know about the science, the more likely they are to believe that.
    BMI actually performs a lot of useful functions in medicine, but it generally acts as a trigger for doing some science, rather than an indication that science has already been done.

    Grant Hutchison

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    There's a corresponding unfortunate tendency for people to believe that if they can put a number to something, then they do understand it, and are doing science.
    Well, if , then by the principles of Faulty Logic (Fawlty Logic?), we can conclude that .
    So . . . does this look as bad as it looks?

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    There's a corresponding unfortunate tendency for people to believe that if they can put a number to something, then they do understand it, and are doing science. And it seems to me that the less they know about the science, the more likely they are to believe that.
    "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." True since before Dunning met Kruger.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Ugh. Both daughter and son-in-law are going for testing today. Both are teachers, and got their first vaccine dose a little over a week ago. Yesterday, daughter had a bad headache, and today SIL has a fever.
    Sorry to hear it. I hope they are both OK and it's just colds.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  9. #1509
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    A friend is getting vaccinated today and can't tell their mother, because their mother's a conspriacist.

    In slightly amusing news, every single time a friend announces on Facebook that they've gotten the shot, I've been replying with the same image of Neil Patrick Harris as Doogie Howser. When that friend posted yesterday that they were getting it today, a friend I know from other places who also knows that one said, "Okay, Gillian, get it ready!"
    _____________________________________________
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  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Sorry to hear it. I hope they are both OK and it's just colds.
    Thanks. Both had quick tests that came back negative. Swab tests were also performed, but the results arenít available yet.
    My daughter is feeling better- headache may just pollen-triggered. SIL still has a fever, but slightly lower today.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    I had a Moderna vaccination 13 days ago. Felt lousy for about 24 hours, after which nothing but a slightly sore arm. However, I think I may be having a delayed reaction, as I have a rare (for me) headache, drowsiness, and some joint pain.

    Two weeks until second dose. My uncle, who's in his mid-80s had the same regimen administered. Said no big deal after the first does, but that the second one wiped him out for several days. Well, he is my mom's half-brother, so I have fewer genes in common than your standard nephew, and maybe I won't be so affected.
    Okay, I had my second vaccination just this evening. All very efficient. Now we'll see how bad my second reaction is.

    Mrs M. had to wait until they lowered the age limit, but she'll be getting her second shot in two more weeks.

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    My daughter is feeling better- headache may just pollen-triggered.
    I know the tree pollen season got an early start around here.
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  13. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I know the tree pollen season got an early start around here.
    Both ďkidsĒ swab tests came back negative. We donít know what caused the fever, but apparently not COVID.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Not at all. I was just trying to advance a caveat to Lord Kelvin's famous dictum:There's a corresponding unfortunate tendency for people to believe that if they can put a number to something, then they do understand it, and are doing science. And it seems to me that the less they know about the science, the more likely they are to believe that.
    BMI actually performs a lot of useful functions in medicine, but it generally acts as a trigger for doing some science, rather than an indication that science has already been done.

    Grant Hutchison
    I do that with my diabetes. Food choices are only 7.2453298% of the issue. The rest of just history and circumstances. Drives me bonkers when I know I made good choices, but the numbers from my meter just don't agree on that day. If I wait a week before passing judgement, sometimes those number become a stray point of data.
    Solfe

  15. #1515
    Two weeks until the Atlantic bubble open will open up between NB,Ns and PEI. Right now if I wanted to I could go to Nova scotia and not self isolate but if I return home I have to self isolate for 2 weeks.
    From the wilderness into the cosmos.
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  16. #1516
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    Over a year ago, I started recording Worldometer data for the USA in a spreadsheet, mostly due to curiosity about apparent lower statistics on weekends. I soon realized those were just reporting anomalies. Seven-day moving averages are more meaningful than daily values.
    And the seven-day moving average for new cases has increased from about 55,000 two weeks ago to about 64,000 today. Not a good thing.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  17. #1517
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    My county's cases alone have gone up 20% lately.
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    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  18. #1518
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    We both got our 2nd shot Of Moderna 4 days ago. No reaction from shot #1, but the 2nd shot gave us both a large pink area around a very sore injection site, and on the second day we both felt like we had a mild hangover with a dull headache, brain fog, & fatigue (what I called "fake flu"). After 48 hours all was back to normal.

  19. #1519
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    Safeway here in Port Townsend has at last abandoned the one-way markings on the floor. The other supermarket did so months ago.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  20. #1520
    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Over a year ago, I started recording Worldometer data for the USA in a spreadsheet, mostly due to curiosity about apparent lower statistics on weekends. I soon realized those were just reporting anomalies. Seven-day moving averages are more meaningful than daily values.
    And the seven-day moving average for new cases has increased from about 55,000 two weeks ago to about 64,000 today. Not a good thing.
    Canada went over the million person mark yesterday, over 23 thousand have died throughout the country, only about 15oo cases from New Brunswick with 30 deaths. Parts of the country are going into lockdown again.
    From the wilderness into the cosmos.
    You can not be afraid of the wind, Enterprise: Broken Bow.
    https://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

  21. #1521
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    I got my 2nd Pfizer Good Friday, some mild reaction but I'm glad I got it. Was empowered to (cautiously) have a social-distanced Easter meal with friends. Masks on until we ate, then masks again.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  22. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Safeway here in Port Townsend has at last abandoned the one-way markings on the floor. The other supermarket did so months ago.
    I think it was Superstore that showed a customer starting to push a cart down an aisle with the arrow pointing the other way. She stopped, turned the arrow 180, and kept going.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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  23. #1523
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    When I was in the store the other day, I mentioned to a woman trying to come toward me (in a crowded aisle where people were restocking, too) that it was one way, and she said, "Oh, I didn't notice." Still seeing people wearing masks under their noses. They've had a year to figure this out!
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  24. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I got my 2nd Pfizer Good Friday, some mild reaction but I'm glad I got it. Was empowered to (cautiously) have a social-distanced Easter meal with friends. Masks on until we ate, then masks again.
    Just a caveat ... you were probably not much more immune three days after Good Friday than you were three days before. The conventional cut-off for "full immunization" (that is, pretty much as good as you'll get) is two weeks after the second dose (though Pfizer looked at immunity after seven days and showed a very good response).
    All the vaccine trials recorded individuals who developed Covid with a likely infection date a few days after vaccination, but you can then see that number tail off as immunity builds.

    (Apologies for the fact this seems like an effort to undermine your sense of empowerment. I considered for a few hours whether I should post or not. It may be that you have other reasons for going ahead with that meal, but on balance I thought it was worth pointing out for others reading this thread that the "gold standard" would be to wait at least a couple of weeks before changing one's behaviour.)

    Grant Hutchison

  25. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Just a caveat ... you were probably not much more immune three days after Good Friday than you were three days before. The conventional cut-off for "full immunization" (that is, pretty much as good as you'll get) is two weeks after the second dose (though Pfizer looked at immunity after seven days and showed a very good response).
    All the vaccine trials recorded individuals who developed Covid with a likely infection date a few days after vaccination, but you can then see that number tail off as immunity builds.

    (Apologies for the fact this seems like an effort to undermine your sense of empowerment. I considered for a few hours whether I should post or not. It may be that you have other reasons for going ahead with that meal, but on balance I thought it was worth pointing out for others reading this thread that the "gold standard" would be to wait at least a couple of weeks before changing one's behaviour.)

    Grant Hutchison
    Well, yes, I know that with the (small, weak, powerless) rational part of my brain. Still, we were in our known social "bubble"; most folks there (including the most vulnerable members) were already two-weeks-past and we were still very cautious. Windows open, spacing chairs, etc. Driving there on the freeway was probably a greater risk to life and limb.

    Celebrating a "two weeks after Easter" dinner wouldn't be quite like celebrating an Easter dinner with family and close friends. I weighed my options and went with going.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  26. #1526
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    There is another important pandemic related shortage!

    It’s . . . restaurant ketchup packets (I didn’t say how important). It’s seems companies switched to retail production for home use, not the single use packets (even states that have fully opened indoor restaurant dining like Texas are saying shared condiment bottles are unacceptable), demand is picking up rapidly, and ramping up production takes time.

    I’m amused by the types of shortages I wouldn’t have expected. There is quite a list of them.

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  27. #1527
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    Apparently there's a surplus of toilet paper now. I know there is in my house! But at least I finally used up the cheap stuff from a year ago.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  28. #1528
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    For the first time since the Pandemic began Australia will have a '2 way travel bubble' with another country. From April 19th people who have been in either Australia or New Zealand for at least 14 days will be able to fly between each country without having to spend time in quarantine when entering the other country. Both Australia and NZ have had very few cases in the community this year and all seem to have come from cross infections from people in quarantine. Australia has allowed quarantine free travel from NZ for a few months but the NZ Govt has now come on-board. My state has been very reluctant to become involved so it may still be a problem here. The caveat is that if community infection occurs in the travellers home city a couple of days after they have left they may be forced into quarantine.

    Arrivals from all other countries will continue to require 14 days quarantine on arrival in either country. Transit passengers will not be allowed on these flights and all crew will be required to only operate between Australia and New Zealand.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56645990
    Last edited by ozduck; 2021-Apr-06 at 07:13 AM.

  29. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Celebrating a "two weeks after Easter" dinner wouldn't be quite like celebrating an Easter dinner with family and close friends.
    Interesting. It would be, in these parts. I don't think I've ever even heard of an "Easter dinner".
    Of course, Easter slides by largely uncelebrated in these parts, apart from the hallowed reenactment of that key moment during the Resurrection, when small children ate chocolate until they vomited.

    Grant Hutchison

  30. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Celebrating a "two weeks after Easter" dinner wouldn't be quite like celebrating an Easter dinner with family and close friends. I weighed my options and went with going.
    Orthodox Easter is 2 May this year.
    So . . . does this look as bad as it looks?

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