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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #1591
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    Thanks for the voices of concern everyone. The good news is I have no symptoms as of yet other than being really annoyed.

    I got the obligatory phone call from King County Public Health. Stay isolated for ten days, they said. If no illness ensues, get your second vaccination as scheduled in mid-May and get back on with life.

    So, I'll be hiding out on the far side of the moon for ten days. Maybe in the Tsiolkovskiy crater. Nice place, but it lacks atmosphere.

  2. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post
    So, I'll be hiding out on the far side of the moon for ten days. Maybe in the Tsiolkovskiy crater. Nice place, but it lacks atmosphere.


    A cheesy joke on the Far Side, but you can rock it with Tsiolkovsky!

    (I was going to say on the Dark Side but I know how much that ticks folks off here.)
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  3. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post
    Thanks for the voices of concern everyone. The good news is I have no symptoms as of yet other than being really annoyed.

    I got the obligatory phone call from King County Public Health. Stay isolated for ten days, they said. If no illness ensues, get your second vaccination as scheduled in mid-May and get back on with life.

    So, I'll be hiding out on the far side of the moon for ten days. Maybe in the Tsiolkovskiy crater. Nice place, but it lacks atmosphere.
    That is good news. It fits with what Gillianren posted and I have also heard. One injection may not give you immunity but it can lessen the effect of an infection.

    (BTW, I think Tsiolkovskiy has always been labelled as BYOA.)
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  4. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    That is good news. It fits with what Gillianren posted and I have also heard. One injection may not give you immunity but it can lessen the effect of an infection.

    (BTW, I think Tsiolkovskiy has always been labelled as BYOA.)
    I heard someone talking on the news here about one injection. Now, this was a person's description of the clinical findings, not the original source, so it's hard to be sure that it's accurate.

    But in any event, what they said is that a single injection is actually pretty effective in preventing infection, and in reducing symptoms if infection occurs nonetheless. However, this level of immunity does not last very long without the second injection.

    That's what they said. I have not gone to the original sources to confirm this.
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  5. #1595
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    As I understand it, the first injection is to "prime the pump" of the immune response, to get the immune system "used to" the triggers that the virus would present in the event of an actual infection. Once the "wanted poster" is spread to the immune system, the second shot ramps up the response to effective longer term levels. That's why the second is stronger than the first, and if there's reactions they're usually stronger with the second shot.

    I'd liken it to a military operation. Stage 1, assemble the troops and munitions in a staging area. Stage two, march* into the combat zone.


    * Yes, I know that's outdated, most infantry is mechanized these days. So what, it's a metaphor.
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  6. #1596
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    As you may recall the UK decided to wait twelve weeks before the second shot, on the grounds that it was better to increase numbers vaccinated and the first shot does offer protection. The recent drop in death rate in the uk seems to show that strategy, controversial at the time, has paid off. The numbers hospitalised has also decreased and it seems the correlation with vaccination is good when you consider nearby countries who are behind in numbers vaccinated. Most over seventies have had both jabs now, while the over forties are getting their first shots. Individual protection may vary but epidemiologically, the vaccine is working.
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  7. #1597
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    The other (arguably, main) reason the UK delayed second doses was because the trial evidence showed that the immune response to the AstraZeneca vaccine improved with a longer delay.
    Some may recall that AZ cocked up their protocol for a small tranche of Phase III subjects, giving them only a half-dose for their second vaccination. But, surprisingly, this group showed improved immunity compared to the protocol group. A bit of subgroup analysis showed that the half-dose tranche had also experienced a longer delay between first and second doses, and that led to a review of the immune response as a function of delay between doses, which proved to rise steadily out to a dose interval of 12 weeks. So it appeared there was no penalty, and indeed some advantage, to a longer dose interval for AZ. The extension of this protocol to the Pfizer vaccine was a rather edgier decision, since there were no good laboratory or trial data to support that.

    It's certainly not the case for all vaccines, however, as the Chilean experience with Sinovac shows--though the Chileans made rapid progress with their vaccination programme, they were dogged by severe infections contracted after the first dose. In part, that seems to have been associated with behavioural "vaccine optimism", and in part because Sinovac seems to offer quite low protection after only one dose.

    Grant Hutchison

  8. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    April 14th marked the end of our 2 week period after our 2nd Moderna shot. Since then we have eaten out at 3 restaurants and stayed at a Bay front hotel for one night. We wore masks in the restaurants and only removed them to eat, the waiters also wore masks. We will still continue to wear masks in any building we enter to shop, eat, etc even though we are inoculated, and will most likely continue to do so until the US is considered by health officials to have acquired herd immunity. Just hoping that those who refuse to get vaccinated will come around over the coming months.
    That sounds like my plan and my thoughts.
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  9. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post

    So, I'll be hiding out on the far side of the moon for ten days. Maybe in the Tsiolkovskiy crater. Nice place, but it lacks atmosphere.


    Not that you are weak, whiny, or boring Selenite, but good luck in your Lunar Fortress.
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  10. #1600
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    I got my first Moderna shot a few hours ago with no side effects. If I fail to wake up tomorrow morning I'll have to withdraw this claim.

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    Not that you are weak, whiny, or boring Selenite, but good luck in your Lunar Fortress.
    Of course, I read the Vikingís quote in John Rhys-Daviesí voice.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I got my first Moderna shot a few hours ago with no side effects. If I fail to wake up tomorrow morning I'll have to withdraw this claim.
    I survived the night. I'll check for super powers later.

  13. #1603
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    In the stuff I don't get department, the first thing I heard when my wife turned on the TV this morning was about states removing Covid restrictions. New US infections are running to about twice the rate from a year ago.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  14. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I survived the night. I'll check for super powers later.
    Bitten by a radioactive syringe.
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  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    In the stuff I don't get department, the first thing I heard when my wife turned on the TV this morning was about states removing Covid restrictions. New US infections are running to about twice the rate from a year ago.

    Around here, the number of new cases looks similar to a year ago, but deaths are much lower. I canít find the chart from last year, but hospitalizations are well below the recent peak.

    If the goal is to prevent infection, relaxation of restrictions is premature. If the goal is to prevent overrun of the hospital system, it may not be. Unfortunately, I think it would be difficult to reinstate restrictions if it becomes necessary.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  16. #1606
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    Apparently Disney World is not going to roll back restrictions even when the State of Florida does. Since I still firmly believe they owe my friends Chris and Ariel because they didn't take all reasonable precautions to prevent the spread of measles a few years back and are just lucky that Chris and Ariel didn't sue, I'm not surprised.
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  17. #1607
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    Yes, deaths are significantly lower. We've gotten much better at diagnosis and treatment. I expect that new cases are among a generally healthier population as well.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  18. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I got my first Moderna shot a few hours ago with no side effects. If I fail to wake up tomorrow morning I'll have to withdraw this claim.
    I got my second does back on March 15th and unlike The Wife, I had virtually no side effects with either dose. About the "virtually": I've gotten a boatload of vaccines in my life so I'm accustomed to the greater soreness some of them can cause...typhoid, yellow fever, etc. However, with the first dose, some of that soreness diffused down to my elbow, which was unusual in my experience. That was it. Maybe I was just lucky. Maybe I'm just that good. Or maybe it was because of my meds, which moderate my immune system.
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  19. #1609
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    Apparently a significant portion of US military personnel are declining the vaccine. When I "joined" just a couple of weeks shy of 50 years ago, that wasn't an option.
    "Joined" because it wasn't voluntary!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  20. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Apparently a significant portion of US military personnel are declining the vaccine. When I "joined" just a couple of weeks shy of 50 years ago, that wasn't an option.
    "Joined" because it wasn't voluntary!
    Obviously the vaccine from 50 years ago wasn't COVID - which ones did they require? Was it more tropical stuff (the timing and country suggest you might have been in Southeast Asia), or conventional stuff like polio and MMR? (The latter apparently became available about the same time.)

    ETA - I found this, https://www.historyofvaccines.org/in...accine-history, which describes two mandatory (and oral) vaccines which were given to US military personnel beginning in 1971. I never heard of them before.
    Last edited by 21st Century Schizoid Man; 2021-May-05 at 02:55 AM.
    People who live in glass houses, should get undressed in the dark.

  21. #1611
    There has been a spike in cases in Nova scotia so now at least Halifax is in lockdown, you aren't suppose to have groups outside your household but this didn't stop some and the government gave out 37 fines of 2000 over the weekend. There was a protest too on the Citadel Hill which was the military fort the city was founded around, the police allowed it there because they didn't want them marching thru the city. Also in my county three people working at a food processing facility, it is a dock where stuff is shipped out of got Covid and they place was shut down because the government didn't want to spread.
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  22. #1612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Apparently a significant portion of US military personnel are declining the vaccine. When I "joined" just a couple of weeks shy of 50 years ago, that wasn't an option.
    "Joined" because it wasn't voluntary!
    I don't think any employers (even hospitals) - at least in the US - are mandating Covid vaccinations, for liability reasons. The vaccination was fast-tracked and did not receive the usual amount of testing and approval, and nobody wants to say, "We'll take responsibility if something bad happens to you as a result of the injection." I suppose the federal government/military is in the same boat.

    Which, I suppose, probably just contributes to people's concerns that it might not be safe...
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  23. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    I don't think any employers (even hospitals) - at least in the US - are mandating Covid vaccinations, for liability reasons. The vaccination was fast-tracked and did not receive the usual amount of testing and approval, and nobody wants to say, "We'll take responsibility if something bad happens to you as a result of the injection." I suppose the federal government/military is in the same boat.

    Which, I suppose, probably just contributes to people's concerns that it might not be safe...
    It went through the required safety testing, just on a priority timetable. They cut out the bureaucratic hoops to jump through for the approval process, mostly.
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  24. #1614
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    The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

    Iím not sure about employers, but many universities already require vaccination for the Fall semester. Also, corners were not cut when evaluating the safety of the vaccines. Iíll refer you to the following article:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/healt...ked/index.html

    [T]he vaccines are reviewed with the same level of scrutiny as they would to get full approval
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  25. #1615
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    What I was hearing at one point was that the process was shortened partly because at least some of the manufacturers started gearing up for large-scale production before the results of the trials were in.

    So that was risky, if the vaccines didn't work or weren't safe, they'd have wasted a lot of money gearing up to produce something they're not going to produce after all. But since the trials went pretty well, this gamble paid off.

    That's what I heard at least. Unsourced. Can anyone confirm?
    People who live in glass houses, should get undressed in the dark.

  26. #1616
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    The idea that corners were cut is being promoted by people with a certain agenda based on their distrust of the system, not reality.
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    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  27. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    What I was hearing at one point was that the process was shortened partly because at least some of the manufacturers started gearing up for large-scale production before the results of the trials were in.

    So that was risky, if the vaccines didn't work or weren't safe, they'd have wasted a lot of money gearing up to produce something they're not going to produce after all. But since the trials went pretty well, this gamble paid off.

    That's what I heard at least. Unsourced. Can anyone confirm?
    I donít have a citation, but have pretty good circumstantial evidence that production ramped ahead of authorization. I received the J&J vaccine at a mass-vaccination site four days after its EUA.

    I suspect that the taxpayers bore some of the financial risk of a vaccine failure, but havenít seen the contracts.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  28. #1618
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    The foundation for rapid vaccine development was built in the decades before this virus emerged.

    Editorial in Science 2021-04-09: The story behind COVID-19 vaccines

  29. #1619
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    Another thing occurs to me - in the case of the Russian vaccine, corners were cut. However, their gamble appears to have paid off.
    People who live in glass houses, should get undressed in the dark.

  30. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Apparently a significant portion of US military personnel are declining the vaccine. When I "joined" just a couple of weeks shy of 50 years ago, that wasn't an option.
    "Joined" because it wasn't voluntary!
    Like all older US veterans, I've had a ton of vaccines, and even more since my father was Army and we lived in some foreign countries. While I was in the Navy, I received the notorious swine flu vaccination. I was not asked for my consent.

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