The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

[Noclevername]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7105343/

Associations between immune-suppressive and stimulating drugs and novel COVID-19—a systematic review of current evidence

Cancer and transplant patients with COVID-19 have a higher risk of developing severe and even fatal respiratory diseases, especially as they may be treated with immune-suppressive or immune-stimulating drugs. This review focuses on the effects of these drugs on host immunity against COVID-19.

[Van Rijn]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7105343/

Yep, I saw that a while back. The interesting thing is that TNF alpha blockers might actually be protective against the immune system overreaction that causes heavy inflammation and damage. Of course, there is no evidence supporting that yet.

[grant hutchison]

Question: A family member is on a TNF inhibitor and wants to know if she is especially vulnerable to COVID-19, being on an immuno-suppressant. Any thoughts here?

She should talk to her doctor about the balance of risks. No-one else can advise her about her own situation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7105343/

Associations between immune-suppressive and stimulating drugs and novel COVID-19—a systematic review of current evidence

Cancer and transplant patients with COVID-19 have a higher risk of developing severe and even fatal respiratory diseases, especially as they may be treated with immune-suppressive or immune-stimulating drugs. This review focuses on the effects of these drugs on host immunity against COVID-19.

But scroll down:

Currently, there is no evidence indicating that TNFα blockade is harmful to patients in the context of COVID-19.

The evidence discussed is scanty, however.


But, folks, look:
While we can search up references for the pharmacology and epidemiology of this and that, we can have no idea of a specific person's medical history. The need to balance the medical literature against a patient's particular medical history is why people with concerns about their medication need to speak to the person who prescribed the medication.

Grant Hutchison

[ToSeek]

Question: A family member is on a TNF inhibitor and wants to know if she is especially vulnerable to COVID-19, being on an immuno-suppressant. Any thoughts here?

Please remember this portion of Rule 1: "People ... should refrain from requesting or offering advice that is best dispensed by a medical, mental health, or legal professional."

[a1call]

Well, i saw this on twitter the other day regarding (a claim for) a new Test-Kit for COVID-19. I am hoping it is OK to post it here.

Apologies beforehand, but I just can't stop LOL'ing about it:
https://twitter.com/rajivb87076649/s...988715520?s=12

[Swift]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7105343/

If you're looking for a place to discuss non-scientific matters related to the COVID-19 pandemic, you've found it.

And a reminder that this thread is for NON-scientific matters. If you want to post links to scientific articles, please do so in the Science & Technology pandemic thread.

[publiusr]

I hope a good documentary is made about this.
The footage of empty streets in New York should have been shot with the new digital viewfinder equipped Super-8 film cameras that were re-released recently...pre-COVID New York in 24 frame per second film—with only the recovery period shot with the modern digital artifacts of motion smoothing to lend a sense that things are surreal now.

For what it is worth, hospital interiors should have the old camcorder style cameras that made the night so dismal in COPS...lastly, only old instant cameras should show more unpleasant aspects.

Just some thoughts, in case any filmmakers visit this site...any documentary on this needs proper weight.

[Roger E. Moore]

I apologize and blame brain damage for being bad here. Did not mean to get everyone else in trouble too. Sigh.

In other news, my sister, married to a radiologist, is making masks for my wife and me. We asked she not make them in pink, and neither of us is a "pink person". Also, nothing with Pokémon on it.

[Gillianren]

People asking for masks from me get them in the fabric I have handy, personally. I'm perfectly willing to do the sewing, but you either provide your own fabric or deal with what I've got to give you.

Far too many friends-of-friends are not seeing that "people are tired of staying inside" is not going to prevent the virus from spreading.

[Jim]

In other news, my sister, married to a radiologist, is making masks for my wife and me. We asked she not make them in pink, and neither of us is a "pink person". Also, nothing with Pokémon on it.

I can see your masks now.
https://weheartit.com/entry/334521147

[Roger E. Moore]

I can see your masks now.
https://weheartit.com/entry/334521147

omg NOOOOO00000ooooooooo

[pzkpfw]

I hope a good documentary is made about this.
The footage of empty streets in New York should have been shot with the new digital viewfinder equipped Super-8 film cameras that were re-released recently...pre-COVID New York in 24 frame per second film—with only the recovery period shot with the modern digital artifacts of motion smoothing to lend a sense that things are surreal now.

For what it is worth, hospital interiors should have the old camcorder style cameras that made the night so dismal in COPS...lastly, only old instant cameras should show more unpleasant aspects.

Just some thoughts, in case any filmmakers visit this site...any documentary on this needs proper weight.

I had been thinking now is the time for Google to update some street view images.

Could be a little depressing to see that in future maybe.

[publiusr]

Leaving the shutter open would blur any ads in Times Square, leaving Trafamadorian traces of the few passers by in wraithform.

[Nicolas]

In other news, my sister, married to a radiologist, is making masks for my wife and me. We asked she not make them in pink, and neither of us is a "pink person". Also, nothing with Pokémon on it.

That's just begging for Jigglypuff masks...

[Swift]

I now know people who have COVID-19. My wife's little sister (as in Big Brothers/Big Sisters - they are considered "alumni" since Littles age out at 18 and Yelena is now in her late 30s, but they are still close) has it, as well as her kids, husband, and in-laws. Most of them are doing OK, didn't need to be hospitalized, but it is over a month and they are still slowly recovering, but her father-in-law is doing poorly and is in the hospital.

[Solfe]

My neighbor seems to have recovered nicely. She's pretty old, but must have been asymptomatic. She was about and around her house the whole time and we waved to each other a couple of time a day. Now she has some sort of contractor cleaning her yard. I can here her bossing the guy around from the garage. Good to know not every old person gets clobbered by this thing.

[Gillianren]

Because of Simon's early speech and social issues, I get the e-mails sent out to special education parents. I'm feeling very fortunate right now that his issues aren't more severe--he still does have some issues dealing with frustration and things, but that's it--because our district simply doesn't know how to provide adequate services for special ed kids right now. Not that I blame them, you understand, but there's so much they can't do. Simon responds best to group situations where he can have proper responses modeled to him and so forth, but the one Zoom meeting we've done so far (with his class) went so poorly that he went to his room rather than struggle through technical issues anymore. It might be improved if I could find my webcam and we could do it on the computer instead of my tablet, but I haven't unpacked that box yet, I guess. I didn't know where it was before we moved!

[publiusr]

I had hoped that this would be another “eclipse moment,” where folks might end up yearning for the company of their fellows.
I am not so sure about that now...cell phones were already a source of “social distancing.” The humanist in me recoils at those two words.

[wd40]

If a year from now it seems that Covid 19 has become permanently 'endemic' to the entire world ie highly contagious, low death rate, strange symptoms, and no cure or vaccine, how would it affect humanity over the coming decade? Defintely tourism, the economy, schooling and people's joie de vivre would be reduced 50%. Can our civilization and the 'snowflake' mentality withstand such a reduction and permanently having to wear masks and be socially distant?

[slang]

If a year from now it seems that Covid 19 has become permanently 'endemic' to the entire world ie highly contagious, low death rate, strange symptoms, and no cure or vaccine, how would it affect humanity over the coming decade? Defintely tourism, the economy, schooling and people's joie de vivre would be reduced 50%. Can our civilization and the 'snowflake' mentality withstand such a reduction and permanently having to wear masks and be socially distant?

This is not a thread for wild speculation. There is no reason at all that any of those assumptions should be true, so let's drop it.

[Trebuchet]

Our lives have not changed much. We are retired, so no difference due to not working. We aren't very social, so not missing parties and such. But I would REALLY like to go have a nice meal in a restaurant!

[Swift]

I now know people who have COVID-19. My wife's little sister (as in Big Brothers/Big Sisters - they are considered "alumni" since Littles age out at 18 and Yelena is now in her late 30s, but they are still close) has it, as well as her kids, husband, and in-laws. Most of them are doing OK, didn't need to be hospitalized, but it is over a month and they are still slowly recovering, but her father-in-law is doing poorly and is in the hospital.

My wife's Little's father-in-law has passed away from Covid-19. Not much of a direct impact on me (I only met the gentleman once, many years ago), but I'm sad for Yelena.

[schlaugh]

I've gone shopping a few times since the lockdowns began, both to our local grocery store and also Costco. The first time I went to Costco was about four weeks ago and noticed the mask-wearing to non-mask-wearing percentage was about 70%, and that included shoppers and staff. I went again two days ago and it's now around 90% with almost all staff wearing masks and gloves. And of course all kinds of changes have been employed: sneeze guards in place on all check out aisles, no handling membership cards, no stacking items on the conveyor belt (the clerk uses the scan gun on the items in the shopping cart) and I have to fetch my own box if I want one to hold the stuff in the back of my car.

On the first shopping journey there was TP aplenty but yesterday, all gone (although the store had literally tons of bottled water). No Clorox bleach spray products such as Clorox Cleanup, or any Lysol products. Fresh produce was plentiful but prices seemed somewhat higher. The meat department seemed to be well-stocked but I expect that will atrophy as the meat processing plants go off-line for a while.

[SeanF]

I've gone shopping a few times since the lockdowns began, both to our local grocery store and also Costco. The first time I went to Costco was about four weeks ago and noticed the mask-wearing to non-mask-wearing percentage was about 70%, and that included shoppers and staff. I went again two days ago and it's now around 90% with almost all staff wearing masks and gloves. And of course all kinds of changes have been employed: sneeze guards in place on all check out aisles, no handling membership cards, no stacking items on the conveyor belt (the clerk uses the scan gun on the items in the shopping cart) and I have to fetch my own box if I want one to hold the stuff in the back of my car.

On the first shopping journey there was TP aplenty but yesterday, all gone (although the store had literally tons of bottled water). No Clorox bleach spray products such as Clorox Cleanup, or any Lysol products. Fresh produce was plentiful but prices seemed somewhat higher. The meat department seemed to be well-stocked but I expect that will atrophy as the meat processing plants go off-line for a while.

I don't understand the gloves. If you're not changing them more often than you would otherwise wash your hands, they don't seem to serve much purpose.

Unless they just remind you not to touch your face, but I wonder how effective they are at doing that...

EDIT: This isn't meant as a criticism of you, Schlaugh. Your post just happened to mention them and made me think about them...

[grant hutchison]

Gloves indeed make very little sense, particularly if they're the cheap disposable gloves that are almost impossible to put on or take off without handling the outside. Staff at my local supermarket wear gloves, but might as well not. I pointed out to the woman at the checkout that she'd just rubbed her nose with her gloved hand after handling my purchases, and she replied, "It's OK love, I'm wearing gloves." And then she did a little "Mammy" wave that showed how filthy the fingers of the gloves were--she'd clearly been wearing them for hours.

I'm drawing strange glances in the street these days, because if I touch surfaces when I'm out, I remind myself not to touch my face by holding my hands in the classic "sterile gloves" posture, which immediately activates a very deep conditioned reflex I've acquired over four decades. Looks bizarre, though.

(While searching for the linked photo, I kept turning up photos like this one, which is an all-too-common depiction of mask and glove use that makes me actually want to punch the photographer. Bradley Whitford's character did the same thing with his sterile gloves and mask in the film Get Out, which was easily the most disturbing part of the whole movie, as far as I was concerned.)

Grant Hutchison

[schlaugh]

EDIT: This isn't meant as a criticism of you, Schlaugh. Your post just happened to mention them and made me think about them...

No worries, I had the same thoughts and observations when I was out. I wear a mask but no gloves (and honestly, I wear the mask so I can get out of the house without an argument. Don't ask...)

[Roger E. Moore]

My wife's Little's father-in-law has passed away from Covid-19. Not much of a direct impact on me (I only met the gentleman once, many years ago), but I'm sad for Yelena.

Sorry to hear this.

[Roger E. Moore]

Gloves indeed make very little sense, particularly if they're the cheap disposable gloves that are almost impossible to put on or take off without handling the outside. Staff at my local supermarket wear gloves, but might as well not. I pointed out to the woman at the checkout that she'd just rubbed her nose with her gloved hand after handling my purchases, and she replied, "It's OK love, I'm wearing gloves." And then she did a little "Mammy" wave that showed how filthy the fingers of the gloves were--she'd clearly been wearing them for hours.

On Facebook people are passing around a photo of a man in Wal-Mart who has taken off a rubber glove with his teeth, and he is reading a grocery list while the glove dangles from his mouth.

[Solfe]

Gloves indeed make very little sense, particularly if they're the cheap disposable gloves that are almost impossible to put on or take off without handling the outside. Staff at my local supermarket wear gloves, but might as well not. I pointed out to the woman at the checkout that she'd just rubbed her nose with her gloved hand after handling my purchases, and she replied, "It's OK love, I'm wearing gloves." And then she did a little "Mammy" wave that showed how filthy the fingers of the gloves were--she'd clearly been wearing them for hours.

I'm drawing strange glances in the street these days, because if I touch surfaces when I'm out, I remind myself not to touch my face by holding my hands in the classic "sterile gloves" posture, which immediately activates a very deep conditioned reflex I've acquired over four decades. Looks bizarre, though.

(While searching for the linked photo, I kept turning up photos like this one, which is an all-too-common depiction of mask and glove use that makes me actually want to punch the photographer. Bradley Whitford's character did the same thing with his sterile gloves and mask in the film Get Out, which was easily the most disturbing part of the whole movie, as far as I was concerned.)

Grant Hutchison

Funny, when I am gloved at work, I touch my thumb to my ring finger as a reminder not to touch anything else. I have a student that requires feeding assistance, that situation is far less "critical". I'm keeping us clean, not necessarily sterile. Gloves are probably completely useless in that situation, but it's the law. That's why I use that reminder not to touch. I get annoyed when people drop their gloves in the washing machine after breakfast or lunch. It's totally a mistake, they just lost them in the pile of clothes but for some reason that bothers me. (Some of our students are very messy eaters.)

I typically only need gloves for toileting students, which is a pretty strong reminder not to touch your face.

[Strange]

I went out to the shops in our little town this morning and mask wearing has got to about 100%. But approximately 90% of those are very obviously doing things that reduces the effectiveness: wearing them just over their mouth, wearing them on their chin, touching the surface of the mask, taking them off to talk to people and, judging by the state of some, wearing them for days on end.

I noticed some staff in the supermarket have stopped wearing mask and gloves, I guess (hope) because they have realised exactly the pointlessness that Grant points out.