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  1. #1
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    Dark Matter

    Are there any theories of the electron where dark matter, of some sort, orbits the electron?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    Are there any theories of the electron where dark matter, of some sort, orbits the electron?
    Not yet. One problem with this idea is that dark matter needs to be about six times the mass of all the protons and neutrons in the universe combined, meaning that if dark matter were bound to electrons, it would dominate the relationship, having 12,000 times the dark-matter mass per electron... further, we do observe the gravitational influence of dark matter, and it is not in places where electrons are concentrated... like atoms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
    Not yet. One problem with this idea is that dark matter needs to be about six times the mass of all the protons and neutrons in the universe combined, meaning that if dark matter were bound to electrons, it would dominate the relationship, having 12,000 times the dark-matter mass per electron... further, we do observe the gravitational influence of dark matter, and it is not in places where electrons are concentrated... like atoms.
    I hope I didn't imply all dark matter being there.
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  4. #4
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    Orbiting electrons would also imply electromagnetic interactions and positive charge, which would mean it wouldn't be dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    Orbiting electrons would also imply electromagnetic interactions and positive charge, which would mean it wouldn't be dark.
    Thats the thing, I almost see that the electron like what appears when a particle changes energy levels. It only manifests as the electron particle at that time. Kind of the opposite of De broglie waves. Instead of proposing matter has waves, propose that the electron manifests, when what ever it is orbiting manifests as matter, instead of an electron changing orbitals manifesting as light.

    I guess the answer is that no it has not been looked at.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    Thats the thing, I almost see that the electron like what appears when a particle changes energy levels. It only manifests as the electron particle at that time. Kind of the opposite of De broglie waves. Instead of proposing matter has waves, propose that the electron manifests, when what ever it is orbiting manifests as matter, instead of an electron changing orbitals manifesting as light.
    To the extent that that makes any sense at all, what could possibly make you think that? It sounds nothing like any physical behavior of electrons, atoms, light, etc that I've ever heard of.


    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    I guess the answer is that no it has not been looked at.
    Why would it ever have been?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    To the extent that that makes any sense at all, what could possibly make you think that? It sounds nothing like any physical behavior of electrons, atoms, light, etc that I've ever heard of.




    Why would it ever have been?
    What we see is an electron. Lets have a thought experiment. Lets say there is a large exotic type of boson of some kind of charge, maybe color charge. We have a smaller boson orbiting it in an orbital. The smaller boson gets excited, jumps to a higher orbital. This transition to a higher orbital, or the jump back down shows as an electron. These boson pairs have a net negative electric charge, so the bosons end up in the orbitals we know and love. We never know where the electron is because we never know when the bosons might make these transitions from one orbital to the next. That is one of the reasons I asked about this article. https://physics.aps.org/articles/v13/s115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    What we see is an electron. Lets have a thought experiment. Lets say there is a large exotic type of boson of some kind of charge, maybe color charge. We have a smaller boson orbiting it in an orbital. The smaller boson gets excited, jumps to a higher orbital. This transition to a higher orbital, or the jump back down shows as an electron. These boson pairs have a net negative electric charge, so the bosons end up in the orbitals we know and love. We never know where the electron is because we never know when the bosons might make these transitions from one orbital to the next. That is one of the reasons I asked about this article. https://physics.aps.org/articles/v13/s115
    ...except electrons are charged elementary particles, and do not behave even vaguely like energy transitions of color-charged heavy boson pairs. They aren't even the same kind of thing.

    As for not knowing where electrons are...do you have some confused idea that the uncertainty principle is specific to electrons and is less than fully understood? If not, then I have no idea what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    What we see is an electron. Lets have a thought experiment. Lets say there is a large exotic type of boson...
    The thought experiment about bosons is irrelevant to electrons which are fermions. A bound boson changing orbitals will not change the fundamental property of spin to make it into an electron (assuming that it has the same mass and charge as an electron).

    Hints of Dark Bosons is about suggestions of dark matter as dark bosons.
    Observation of Excess Electronic Recoil Events in XENON1T reported an excess of low-energy electronic recoils.
    An excess is observed between 1 and 7 keV that is consistent with a solar axion signal, a solar neutrino signal with enhanced magnetic moment, or a possible tritium background. We are unable to confirm nor exclude the presence of tritium at this time.
    Dark bosons would interact weakly with matter. They would be exchanged as virtual particles between electrons and neutrons, thus changing the transition spectra. Two teams tested this. One team's results matched the standard model's prediction calculated to first order. The other team found a deviation from that prediction. That may be matched by the standard model by adding more terms to the predictions. That may be dark bosons.

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    Conpernicus,

    This thread is a place to ask questions and get mainstream answers. This thread is also where you keep your ATM ideas to yourself.
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