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Thread: Another WOW signal

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    Another WOW signal

    Alien Hunters Discover Mysterious Signal from Proxima Centauri
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...xima-centauri/
    Most curiously, it occupies a very narrow band of the radio spectrum: 982 megahertz, specifically, which is a region typically bereft of transmissions from human-made satellites and spacecraft. “We don’t know of any natural way to compress electromagnetic energy into a single bin in frequency” such as this one, Siemion says. Perhaps, he says, some as-yet-unknown exotic quirk of plasma physics could be a natural explanation for the tantalizingly concentrated radio waves. But “for the moment, the only source that we know of is technological.”
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Eh, we know how this goes by now, we’ll get all excited and then in two weeks we’ll discover there was a mundane explanation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    Eh, we know how this goes by now, we’ll get all excited and then in two weeks we’ll discover there was a mundane explanation.
    Nah, not a discovery, it'll be 6 weeks and a hypothesis.

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    That's my expectation too. But if it ever does happen it will probably start out like this.
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    This is a very narrow-band signal. Very likely technological, not natural. The key question, of course -- is it our technology, or someone else's? Being very nearly an even 3 times the frequency of the deuterium spectral line, well known to radio astronomers, makes it look like an instance of 'magic frequency' logic, rather than a random bit of interference.

    It also appears that the signal moved upward in frequency consistently for several days. The transmitter may have been moving toward us, causing a Doppler shift. That doesn't sound like the movements of any of our aircraft or satellite-- not consistently, over so long a period of time. It does sound like the motion of a rather slow-rotating planet, or the movement of a planet around its star.
    Last edited by Ross 54; 2020-Dec-22 at 05:28 PM. Reason: corrected information, added information

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    There is also TYC 1220-91-1 and Sagan's eleven signals I brought up earlier.
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    For starters, it was a tone .. not a 'signal'. (Ie: it presents with no apparent modulation harmonics, which we normally decode to retrieve message bearing information).

    It drifted upwards in frequency slowly over time, which implies it was from an uncontrolled source.

    According to the article in the OP, it has not been independently verified, nor has the observation been repeated by the original observatory (Parkes).

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    A superjovian with a surface flare swinging towards us? If it's distant enough from its primary we might not have discovered it yet.
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    An alien civilization's last, desperate cry for help, before being silenced forever. Or maybe something to do with Proxima being a flare star.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    An alien civilization's last, desperate cry for help, before being silenced forever.
    Be on the lookout for baby superheroes.
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    (Proxima Centauri signal) The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth? Examining this and other intriguing questions at the start of 2021.

    QUOTE: Let’s start with BLC1, first reported by The Guardian and later picked up by Scientific American and other publications. The detected radio signal had a frequency of about 982 MHz and varied slightly in frequency, which makes it less likely to be a “false positive” emanating from Earth’s surface. It was detected during 30 hours of observation with the Parkes Observatory in Australia in April and May 2019. But it hasn’t been heard again. The signal apparently was coming from the direction of Proxima Centauri, the closest star system to our own. That system has one known exoplanet, but it is likely not habitable due to strong solar flares emitted from the host star.

    https://www.airspacemag.com/daily-pl...rth-180976683/
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    Not convincing so far, but even so, very exciting. I suspect I'm going to be disappointed though once the details have been verified.

    IF it did turn out to be an extra terrestrial signal so close to our solar system then the possible implications could be quite astounding.

    I really hope we do find ET within my life time, its been a life long dream of mine.

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    Arthur C. Clarke said something like "We are either alone or we are not. Either alternative is terrifying."
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    Arthur C. Clarke said something like "We are either alone or we are not. Either alternative is terrifying."
    I’ve heard that before. Personally, I don’t find either of them particularly frightening. Now, if I found out there was a big invasion coming our way by advanced aliens determined to torture us to death, I would find that somewhat frightening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I’ve heard that before. Personally, I don’t find either of them particularly frightening. Now, if I found out there was a big invasion coming our way by advanced aliens determined to torture us to death, I would find that somewhat frightening.
    Yep, the most frightening bit is that we would most likely be completely defenceless. Personally, focussing on the threats that we are certain about, meteors, global warming, nuclear war prevention, pandemics etc... should be highest priority. If Aliens come anytime soon and decide we to wipe us out then, well... other than attempt to negotiate, we are pretty much helpless I guess.

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    I think alien attack is a very low priority threat. Bottom of the list.

    Any talk of the WOW being anything artificial is highly premature at this stage. There are certainly natural sources that should be considered first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    Yep, the most frightening bit is that we would most likely be completely defenceless. Personally, focussing on the threats that we are certain about, meteors, global warming, nuclear war prevention, pandemics etc... should be highest priority.
    I completely agree. I didn't mean to say that we should be preparing for it, just making the somewhat obvious point that I would be frightened if it suddenly happened.
    As above, so below

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I completely agree. I didn't mean to say that we should be preparing for it, just making the somewhat obvious point that I would be frightened if it suddenly happened.
    Yes. It would be frightening if my skin suddenly turned inside-out, but that isn’t likely to happen spontaneously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    Yep, the most frightening bit is that we would most likely be completely defenseless. Personally, focusing on the threats that we are certain about, meteors, global warming, nuclear war prevention, pandemics etc... should be highest priority. If Aliens come anytime soon and decide we to wipe us out then, well... other than attempt to negotiate, we are pretty much helpless I guess.
    There is no reasonable way to get from another solar system to our planet. Sure, a giant meteor could expel microbes from one solar system to another solar system. Those microbes could start to evolve here, but if that were even possible, there is no evidence for it happening here, so I don't even think that scenario is likely. There has been plenty of large asteroid hits to planets and plenty of time for contaminated asteroids to reach earth. As far as a signal, I don't know how big the source would have had to have been to actually detect the signal that was detected. What would have been the required power output?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    There is no reasonable way to get from another solar system to our planet. Sure, a giant meteor could expel microbes from one solar system to another solar system. Those microbes could start to evolve here, but if that were even possible, there is no evidence for it happening here, so I don't even think that scenario is likely. There has been plenty of large asteroid hits to planets and plenty of time for contaminated asteroids to reach earth. As far as a signal, I don't know how big the source would have had to have been to actually detect the signal that was detected. What would have been the required power output?
    If there was a beacon, 1000 light years from earth, and it shown for one second it would take 10 billion years of earths current electric power output, if we needed a beacon of 10^26 initial watts. Realistically, we could probably only come up with something that lasted 10^-17 seconds. Of course these are my own rough guesses. The most powerful laser ever is about 10^18 watts for who knows what fraction of a second. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...rt-empty-space
    Last edited by Copernicus; 2021-Jan-12 at 12:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    If there was a beacon, 1000 light years from earth, and it shown for one second it would take 10 billion years of earths current electric power output, if we needed a beacon of 10^26 initial watts. Realistically, we could probably only come up with something that lasted 10^-17 seconds. Of course these are my own rough guesses. The most powerful laser ever is about 10^18 watts for who knows what fraction of a second. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...rt-empty-space
    Proxima Centauri is not 1000 LY from us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    There is no reasonable way to get from another solar system to our planet. Sure, a giant meteor could expel microbes from one solar system to another solar system. Those microbes could start to evolve here, but if that were even possible, there is no evidence for it happening here, so I don't even think that scenario is likely. There has been plenty of large asteroid hits to planets and plenty of time for contaminated asteroids to reach earth. As far as a signal, I don't know how big the source would have had to have been to actually detect the signal that was detected. What would have been the required power output?
    I agree, though I was pointing out the simple obvious species threatening disasters that we can foresee and should expect at some point. The ones that are a real threat, and something we may be able to deal with one way or another. I think we are more likely to suffer disaster from an impact than the transfer of microbes, though you can never rule out the possibility. As for pandemics, well we are witnessing one right now so the likelihood is this would come from closer to home rather than space.

    We are creeping slightly off topic so I'll leave it at that for now. In the meantime it will be very interesting to see the outcome and conclusion of the new signal. I won't get my hopes up because I personally think there will be a natural explanation for the source, rather than a technological intelligent one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Proxima Centauri is not 1000 LY from us.
    Agreed! It would require much less power. Perhaps 100,000 times less.
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    The Copernican Principle Rules Out BLC1 as a Technological Radio Signal from the Alpha Centauri System.

    Amir Siraj, Abraham Loeb

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.04118

    Without evidence for occupying a special time or location, we should not assume that we inhabit privileged circumstances in the Universe. As a result, within the context of all Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars, the origin of a technological civilization on Earth should be considered a single outcome of a random process. We show that in such a Copernican framework, which is inherently optimistic about the prevalence of life in the Universe, the likelihood of the nearest star system, Alpha Centauri, hosting a radio-transmitting civilization is ∼10−8. This rules out, \textit{a priori}, Breakthrough Listen Candidate 1 (BLC1) as a technological radio signal from the Alpha Centauri system, as such a scenario would violate the Copernican principle by about eight orders of magnitude. We also show that the Copernican principle is consistent with the vast majority of Fast Radio Bursts being natural in origin.
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    The Copernican principle is a philosophical viewpoint, not a rule; it does not "rule out" anything. Direct evidence rules things out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    The Copernican Principle Rules Out BLC1 as a Technological Radio Signal from the Alpha Centauri System.

    Amir Siraj, Abraham Loeb

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.04118

    Without evidence for occupying a special time or location, we should not assume that we inhabit privileged circumstances in the Universe. As a result, within the context of all Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars, the origin of a technological civilization on Earth should be considered a single outcome of a random process. We show that in such a Copernican framework, which is inherently optimistic about the prevalence of life in the Universe, the likelihood of the nearest star system, Alpha Centauri, hosting a radio-transmitting civilization is ∼10−8. This rules out, \textit{a priori}, Breakthrough Listen Candidate 1 (BLC1) as a technological radio signal from the Alpha Centauri system, as such a scenario would violate the Copernican principle by about eight orders of magnitude. We also show that the Copernican principle is consistent with the vast majority of Fast Radio Bursts being natural in origin.
    That is why I went along with the 1000 light years. Chances are there is probably only on civilization capable of transmitting, every 1000 light years. I am not optimistic, that high technology civilizations actually las that long. Too many things to go wrong. Better to be less intelligent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    That is why I went along with the 1000 light years. Chances are there is probably only on civilization capable of transmitting, every 1000 light years. I am not optimistic, that high technology civilizations actually las that long. Too many things to go wrong. Better to be less intelligent.
    There is just as much chance of it being closer or further or not at all. Since we know of only one technological life form (us) then we cannot begin to make predications. We can only make assumptions based on the little data we do have, this is why the Drake equation though an interesting exercise, and one I enjoy playing around with, is ambiguous. You can plug in plausible numbers that give you an estimated average of just 1 technological species per galaxy or just as easy numbers that give you millions per galaxy.

    Who's to say, maybe there is life in the Alpha Centauri system and it has some common ancestry with life here on Earth. Until this or/if this signal is identified then we are no further ahead.

    I personally believe its extremely unlikely to be an ET signal, but as yet its not ruled out until there is (as Noclevername stated) "direct evidence" one way or another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    There is just as much chance of it being closer or further or not at all. Since we know of only one technological life form (us) then we cannot begin to make predications. We can only make assumptions based on the little data we do have, this is why the Drake equation though an interesting exercise, and one I enjoy playing around with, is ambiguous. You can plug in plausible numbers that give you an estimated average of just 1 technological species per galaxy or just as easy numbers that give you millions per galaxy.

    Who's to say, maybe there is life in the Alpha Centauri system and it has some common ancestry with life here on Earth. Until this or/if this signal is identified then we are no further ahead.

    I personally believe its extremely unlikely to be an ET signal, but as yet its not ruled out until there is (as Noclevername stated) "direct evidence" one way or another.
    Everyone can have dreams. Using that same argument to calculate if we are accidentally near the center of the universe. If we are within 200 million light years of a hypothetical universe center that has a radius of 4 billion light years, then there is about a one in 8000 chance that we are close to the center of that hypothetical universe. Much greater chances than finding intelligent life, capable of signaling at 4 million light years from here.
    Almost everyone would laugh at this argument.
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    Well, SOMETHING made the WOW signal, the TYC 1220-91-1, the signal we are discussing here, Sagan's eleven signals, and all the other signals SETI gets that never repeat. The odds are IMHO in favor of natural origin, but I would like to know what that origin is.
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Why the recent signal that appeared to come from Proxima Centauri almost certainly didn't. On April 29, 2019, the Parkes Radio Telescope in Australia began listing to the radio signals from the Sun’s nearest neighbor, Proxima Centauri, just over 4 lightyears away. The telescope was looking for evidence of solar flares and so listened for 30 minutes before retraining on a distant quasar to recalibrate and then pointing back. In total, the telescope gathered 26 hours of data. But when astronomers analyzed it in more detail, they noticed something odd — a single pure tone at a frequency of 982.02 MHz that appeared five times in the data.

    https://astronomy.com/news/2021/01/w...ertainly-didnt
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