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  1. #1
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    Did The Ancients use Phi ?

    HI ... I'm back . I was just wondering what this audience has to say about The Ancient Romans, Ancient Greeks and of course The Ancient Egyptians and their use of Phi, if they did indeed use it.

    Just curious. and of course you have to know that I have "proof" that they did.

    Regards

  2. #2
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    If you have proof I’m not sure why you’re asking.

    But my impression is that yes, it was known at least in Ancient Greece, though I don’t know about Egypt. And so it doesn’t seem unreasonable that it would have been used in design.


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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahatmose View Post
    HI ... I'm back . I was just wondering what this audience has to say about The Ancient Romans, Ancient Greeks and of course The Ancient Egyptians and their use of Phi, if they did indeed use it.

    Just curious. and of course you have to know that I have "proof" that they did.

    Regards

    Then welcome back, so you should know the rules of ATM.
    This is not a "discussion place" where you throw up a question.
    Here you present and defend your ideas.
    So please show your "proof".
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  4. #4
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    What is the mainstream view on whether the ancients used Phi?

    I assume this refers to a number, not a letter. For the letter, it would appear to depend on whether they understood Greek or not.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    What is the mainstream view on whether the ancients used Phi?

    I assume this refers to a number, not a letter. For the letter, it would appear to depend on whether they understood Greek or not.
    The Ancient Greeks undoubtedly knew about the irrational number phi, supposedly so-named after the architect Phidias, and studied by Euclid.
    The "golden ratio" it embodies seems to be found in some Ancient Greek architecture, such as the Parthenon, but there's debate over how much of that was ever deliberate, and how much is just people casting around until they find data that fits the hypothesis.

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  6. #6
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    By Phi I assume you mean the irrational number or Golden Ratio:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

    Some of the greatest mathematical minds of all ages, from Pythagoras and Euclid in ancient Greece, through the medieval Italian mathematician Leonardo of Pisa and the Renaissance astronomer Johannes Kepler, to present-day scientific figures such as Oxford physicist Roger Penrose, have spent endless hours over this simple ratio and its properties.
    According to one story, 5th-century BC mathematician Hippasus discovered that the golden ratio was neither a whole number nor a fraction (an irrational number), surprising Pythagoreans.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahatmose View Post
    HI ... I'm back . I was just wondering what this audience has to say about The Ancient Romans, Ancient Greeks and of course The Ancient Egyptians and their use of Phi, if they did indeed use it.

    Just curious. and of course you have to know that I have "proof" that they did.

    Regards
    Please define what you mean by “ancient”. Please define what you mean by “use.”

    Also, why do you place the word proof in quotation marks? Is it that you do not have actual proof, only “proof”? I would not want to go to a restaurant to order a substance they refer to in the menu as “food”.

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    I know nothing about pre-Hellenic Egyptian mathematics, but they had advanced engineering and astronomy (used for astrology but whattaya gonna do) so their math skills were nothing to sneeze at. I would not be at all surprised to find they did know the concept of Phi before it was Phi.
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  9. #9
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    Hi I am not sure if you would prefer me to state one of my proofs here or if listing a website where I have it posted is acceptable. There are many more proofs but i will try this for a test ..

    To put it in perspective "The Mainstream" are adamant that The Ancient Romans, around 100 BC or so not only had little use for mathematics (even though they credit Julius Caesar for reforming our calendar, wonder how he did that with no math) but never even had a clue about Phi let alone incorporating it into any of their buildings. Well I would like to disagree.

    http://donbarone.altervista.org/Seco...ed%20Code.html

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    Did The Ancients use Phi ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahatmose View Post
    Hi I am not sure if you would prefer me to state one of my proofs here or if listing a website where I have it posted is acceptable.
    Ahatmose,

    You may use your offsite material for specific supporting references but the substance of your presentation must be posted here, in the forum. You may not simply exhort people to go read your web site. So please make your case clearly and directly.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahatmose View Post
    To put it in perspective "The Mainstream" are adamant that The Ancient Romans, around 100 BC or so not only had little use for mathematics (even though they credit Julius Caesar for reforming our calendar, wonder how he did that with no math) but never even had a clue about Phi let alone incorporating it into any of their buildings. Well I would like to disagree.
    So would the mainstream. There are numerous published papers on the Roman use of mathematics. The consensus seems to be that they preferred their maths to be practical but that included it being extensively used to design buildings. Their familairity with Greek work and their passion for (appropriately deferential) Greek learning means that they would have almost certainly been aware of it (Cicero was well aware of Euclid's Elements, for example, which used it in several places).

    The Julian calendar is actually the worst example you could have picked as they used a Greek astronomer to devise it.

    So you might want to turn down the hyperbole here. "The Mainstream" don't make any of the claims you have attributed to them except perhaps that there is no evidence of phi being conciously used in the design of buildings by Roman architects.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    So would the mainstream. There are numerous published papers on the Roman use of mathematics. The consensus seems to be that they preferred their maths to be practical but that included it being extensively used to design buildings. Their familairity with Greek work and their passion for (appropriately deferential) Greek learning means that they would have almost certainly been aware of it (Cicero was well aware of Euclid's Elements, for example, which used it in several places).

    The Julian calendar is actually the worst example you could have picked as they used a Greek astronomer to devise it.

    So you might want to turn down the hyperbole here. "The Mainstream" don't make any of the claims you have attributed to them except perhaps that there is no evidence of phi being consciously used in the design of buildings by Roman architects.
    Hi from my research they used Roman Numerals to calculate and it was cumbersome and inefficient method. As to a Greek inventing The Julian calendar could you please point me to a place I could verify that as I have brought up to believe that Augustus and Julius Caesar. This board is always it seems trying to get off the main topic. I am here to discuss Phi. I posted a link to a perfect example The Pantheon and not one comment on that. So I will give you another example and please comment on the fact that do they or do they not show Phi in their construction.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    .

  13. #13
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    Well one property of phi is that if you draw a golden ratio rectangle and then square off using the short side, you have another golden ratio rectangle. This trick of geometry “must “ have been known. Surely?
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    Thread closed until the OP returns.
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