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Thread: BSG and Orion

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    BSG and Orion

    I've been rewatching the final few episodes of the rebooted "Battlestar Galactica" for the first time in several years. Several times in the lead up to finding Earth, if you hit pause, you can see the constellation Orion in the background, looking much as it does from Earth today. As the series ends, it's revealed the story was 150,000 year's ago. I don't believe Orion would look the same back then. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

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    Of the brightest stars that make up the recognizable constellation, Betelgeuse has the largest proper motion, and would be noticeably out of place 150000 years ago.
    To get an idea of how large the motions are, take a look at ESA's animation of the constellation of Orion as it evolves over 450000 into the future. Betelgeuse has moved well out of place after 150000 years, which is at about 28 seconds into the movie, but the rest of the constellation looks much the same.
    https://youtu.be/5KFQD6Bpnm0
    So Betelegeuse would be considerably messing up the constellation's shape 150000 years in the past.

    Grant Hutchison

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    That shows Betelgeuse moving farther from the belt. My first thought when I was shown the constellation was that it looked like it was too far away for the way I was told the image was supposed to work. If it was closer in the past, it would actually seem to me to fit in better with the rest of the constellation.

    But also, the movement that was shown there was slow enough that any discrepancy with what was shown on-screen would be so slight that it would require measuring distances in pixels of a freeze-frame. For something that was only ever on-screen for about a second in the background and which contributed nothing to the plot and wasn't spoken about by any of the characters, that's close enough. It was just something for viewers to spot themselves and think "OMG they're getting close!".

    The much bigger problem is that, when it appeared, they were still at least one (I think two or three) interstellar "Jump(s)" away from here, and the way they were used in previous episodes implied that a straight line from where they vanished to where they reappeared often passed by multiple other stars, so a Jump could take them multiple times the average interstellar distance. Parallax would mutilate the constellations worse than just sitting here & waiting.

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    Of all the flaws in the ending to BSG, bad astronomy is the least of them.

    Orion's Belt was as Delvo said, likely just a visual shorthand for viewers to indicate that the Rag-Tag Fugitive Fleet was entering familiar territory. It's one of the most easily recognized constellations, and making it "historically" accurate would have destroyed that. It could not have served its story purpose.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Of all the flaws in the ending to BSG, bad astronomy is the least of them.

    Orion's Belt was as Delvo said, likely just a visual shorthand for viewers to indicate that the Rag-Tag Fugitive Fleet was entering familiar territory. It's one of the most easily recognized constellations, and making it "historically" accurate would have destroyed that. It could not have served its story purpose.
    I get the feeling that the staff wrote themselves into a corner then announced: "Does anyone want to be a writer?" The way that things suddenly concluded leads me to think the actors were making things up. No one has exactly said that, but I can't help but notice that a lot of ad-libbing was going on at a significantly high level. Everything from episode titles and character choices.

    Writer: "Yeah. Your character died."
    Actor: "What?"
    Writer: "See you tomorrow."
    Actor: "What?"
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I get the feeling that the staff wrote themselves into a corner then announced: "Does anyone want to be a writer?"
    Sloppy. Always have an ending in mind when you start an over-arching story arc.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Sloppy. Always have an ending in mind when you start an over-arching story arc.
    I love Battlestar Galactica, both the original and the remake but never Battlestar Galactica 1980. But I have to say, you are being too kind. There is an inkling of every idea that popped up in the end, but virtually no development time spent on it.

    "Aw, the fans will just make something up to fill in the gaps."
    Solfe

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    The new BSG initial miniseries had an astonishing effect on me - I got into it enough that I actually had a related nightmare after watching the multiplanet nuclear destruction, and I kept thinking about it for days. But it didn’t last long after the initial miniseries. The show got harder and harder to watch. I did see it through the end of the series, but I didn’t care about it anymore. I’ve never had any interest in watching it a second time.

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    Started out strong, ended up wrong.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    I liked the idea of BSG finding Earth 150,000 year's ago. But thought it unrealistic that 30,000+ humans would so easily be persuaded to throw away what little technology they had and runoff into the jungle and live like cavemen. I believe Apollo would be disappointed to see us now. We're not much better than those ancient Colonials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    I believe Apollo would be disappointed to see us now. We're not much better than those ancient Colonials.
    But we pretty much have to be that way, given their cyclic time gimmick. Presumably there was an endless cycle of people doing essentially the same thing. We are just the latest iteration. I didn’t care much for that idea, it made all the effort of everyone involved pretty much pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    I believe Apollo would be disappointed to see us now. We're not much better than those ancient Colonials.
    At least haven't built our own Doombots. So we got that going for us.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    At least haven't built our own Doombots. So we got that going for us.
    Give it time, give it time. The century's still young.

    David.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krel View Post
    Give it time, give it time. The century's still young.

    David.
    At least let's develop FTL first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    The new BSG initial miniseries had an astonishing effect on me - I got into it enough that I actually had a related nightmare after watching the multiplanet nuclear destruction, and I kept thinking about it for days. But it didn’t last long after the initial miniseries. The show got harder and harder to watch. I did see it through the end of the series, but I didn’t care about it anymore. I’ve never had any interest in watching it a second time.
    My thoughts exactly, except I gave up early in season 2.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    At least haven't built our own Doombots. So we got that going for us.
    I don't know.... this is how it starts.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    My thoughts exactly, except I gave up early in season 2.
    I got into a “I’ve watched it this far, might as well see it through the end” mode of thinking, but it sure got hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I don't know.... this is how it starts.
    I know that’s highly choreographed, and they have no intelligence as such, but it still is amazing to see them move like that. By the way, does the robot dog with manipulator (the model is appropriately named “Spot”) remind people here of a Niven Known Space Pierson’s Puppeteer? It is the manipulator arm that makes me think of it. If it had three legs and two manipulators, it would be uncanny.

    http://www.larryniven.net/puppeteer/pupbod.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I don't know.... this is how it starts.
    Those Atlas bots could go under the "Trivial or non-trivial technology that amazes you" thread. It's a good thing they picked "Atlas" and not some other name like "Leonardo".
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    I know that’s highly choreographed, and they have no intelligence as such, but it still is amazing to see them move like that. By the way, does the robot dog with manipulator (the model is appropriately named “Spot”) remind people here of a Niven Known Space Pierson’s Puppeteer? It is the manipulator arm that makes me think of it. If it had three legs and two manipulators, it would be uncanny.

    http://www.larryniven.net/puppeteer/pupbod.shtml
    I had the same thought about Puppeteers.

    I wonder if robots like these might be useful in future movie digital effects, if nothing else to give the performance capture component upon which the computer effects are applied.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    The new BSG initial miniseries had an astonishing effect on me ...
    I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean by "new BSG initial miniseries".

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    Quote Originally Posted by geonuc View Post
    I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean by "new BSG initial miniseries".
    The "new" BSG began with a miniseries that set up the rebooted universe. It was then expanded into a regular TV show that lasted 4 seasons.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    The "new" BSG began with a miniseries that set up the rebooted universe. It was then expanded into a regular TV show that lasted 4 seasons.
    Exactly. It was very powerful and acted as the pilot for the series. Only it was hard to sustain it for the main series.

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    The miniseries' plot had a beginning, middle, and end. The series' plot had a beginning.

    I think the folks who ran the show just got into the mindset of "Let's just keep this going as long as it makes money". As several people have said, "The Cylons have a Plan. The writers did not."
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    BSG and Orion

    On a very peripheral note, I recall being tickled off that the premiere of the original BSG was preempted for an announcement by President Carter.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    On a very peripheral note, I recall being tickled off that the premiere of the original BSG was preempted for an announcement by President Carter.
    That phrase tickles me. Not off.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    That phrase tickles me. Not off.
    Pesky autocorrect.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    The "new" BSG began with a miniseries that set up the rebooted universe. It was then expanded into a regular TV show that lasted 4 seasons.
    If only I had known that sooner. After a friend kept banging on about how great it was, I picked up the the Season 1 DVDs. When you fire up Season 1, Episode 1, you don't expect to be greeted by "Previously, on Battlestar Galactica ..."

    Grant Hutchison

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    If only I had known that sooner. After a friend kept banging on about how great it was, I picked up the the Season 1 DVDs. When you fire up Season 1, Episode 1, you don't expect to be greeted by "Previously, on Battlestar Galactica ..."
    Well, that was done poorly on the part of the folks doing the DVDs. The miniseries was presented over two nights, two hours per night. I’d expect it to be included at the beginning of the DVD presentation, or at least with some indications on the first season boxes that it comes first.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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    When I was little, I wanted to be a viper pilot.

    When my kids were little, they'd line up diaper boxes and pretend to fly vipers while watching the show. I did have the good sense to let them watch the original 1978 series and not the reboot. The only bit from the new series that I ever let them watch was Hot Dog's launch in the "Falling like a rock" episode. It's like 90 seconds.

    I picked up a set of VHS tapes of it at Circuit City. Oddly, it was a boxed set of not the whole original series, but movies edited together from those. Some of them were theatrical releases and others were made for TV movies. It was rather odd to experience because it is the same footage re-edited. It made my doubt my memories.
    Solfe

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