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Thread: Predictions, especially about the future

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Having multiple recycling streams with their own processing is multiple times as expensive to run. Money makes the recycling world not go 'round.

    Water (or lemonade) bottles can be made of fairly flimsy plastic, of several varieties. A carbonated drink needs a stronger material, a low level pressure vessel, to withstand shipping.
    Which is very true, investment should be made towards reducing the costs involved for recycling. Shifting the problem down or up stream which you often see does nothing to solve the root causes and problems.
    Recycling is important and sensible, but it needs to be practical and actually makes a difference. There are certainly things we can do to reduce waste and make the environment better.

    The company I work for has invested heavily in reducing waste, energy saving. There has also been considerations for our material & service providers and the end user of the product we produce. I've been involved quite a lot in this and can see the benefits, but at the same time the cost and unpracticality of making changes along with how some of the problems are offset to others to take up the responsibility.

    But yes, in the spirit of this thread I see either big changes in the way we mange our waste or a destructive influence to the current environment.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    You cannot expect manufacturers to do the right thing in open competition, nor can you expect consumers to make responsible decisions.
    Just caught this.

    It seems unrealistically pessimistic to make such a blanket statement about consumers... which in practice means all people. Everybody buys stuff, and most people have some sense of responsibility and judgement in their decision making. Not all and not perfectly (whatever perfect is), but what you say is generally untrue. Otherwise nothing good would ever get done. Many societies even have responsible actions as an explicit cultural imperative.

    If people think there's a good reason to do something, most of them do it. Grumble and whine about the inconvenience while they do it, but they do it.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Just caught this.

    It seems unrealistically pessimistic to make such a blanket statement about consumers... which in practice means all people. Everybody buys stuff, and most people have some sense of responsibility and judgement in their decision making. Not all and not perfectly (whatever perfect is), but what you say is generally untrue. Otherwise nothing good would ever get done. Many societies even have responsible actions as an explicit cultural imperative.
    I think the point was that if one company makes an ethically good decision that makes products more expensive, then they will win out in competition if consumers buy the products but will lose out if consumers do not. So it requires a combination of manufacturers doing the wrong thing and consumers doing the wrong thing for a bad thing to happen. And of course, consumers don't simply make the bad choice because they are bad people. In many cases they simply don't have enough financial leeway to make the better choice.
    As above, so below

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think the point was that if one company makes an ethically good decision that makes products more expensive, then they will win out in competition if consumers buy the products but will lose out if consumers do not.
    A truism. A company needs people to buy their products period, no matter what the company's ethical stance.

    So it requires a combination of manufacturers doing the wrong thing and consumers doing the wrong thing for a bad thing to happen.

    Profloater said you can't expect responsible decisions from consumers. I disagreed, and showed why.

    And I disagree with the quoted statement you made. Any company can make a shoddy cheap product and pass it off as a good one. And then bad things happen, without the customer's "bad" decisions.

    And of course, consumers don't simply make the bad choice because they are bad people. In many cases they simply don't have enough financial leeway to make the better choice.
    No one mentioned "bad people". I was trying to show that most people given the option, tend to choose the "good" less damaging path even if it means paying or doing more. Not having the option (the wherewithal to buy better products) takes the choice out of one's hands.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  5. #35
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    Anyway. Back to predictions.

    The pandemic has led to major disruption with many effects that will echo for decades. For instance, the resulting mental health crisis, or massive financial damage. In particular, kids have been heavily affected socially and educationally, especially special education students whose entire learning process has been overturned, and those from low income families who didn't have daily access to computers and video classes. I often say that any school record of 2020 should just say "Covid year, automatic do-over".

    This generation's unfair burden will stick with them for a lifetime. The economic results will exacerbate already hard times, and the results of the social injuries to the vulnerable in their formative years has yet to be quantified. So for a generation at least, we'll see some significant problems as the aftershocks of last year/this year continue to have an impact.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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