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Thread: Signs...

  1. #1
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    I mind as well start it, i know it is going to come soon.

    "Signs": Reactions?

    (spoilers)
    I thought it was a good edge of your seat triller but the way they defeat the aliens i think is stupid. Also the movie ended quite hurredly. It felt like they said, ok it is about 2 hours, lets wrap it up. They left alot of stuff in the air that they should of fixed.

    Any BA?

    I did not see much, Ummm...They did good things like no stars at night on cameras, ect. The aliens were weird, why attack a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere? Why do they look like humans, why cant they have four arms, ect and small head with their brains in their torsos? That is the one problem, they had to pick the grey big headed alien, UHHGGG!!! A baby monitor picks up the aliens but a radio wont? huh? Anyone got anything else?

    P.S. i have one question, if crop circles are only created by alines who made the ones for the movie?

    P.S.S. the funnyest thing was shamalans camoe in it, iss he getting a big ego or what?

  2. #2
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    Shyamalan has appeared in all his movies (all three of them).

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    On 2002-08-04 01:41, g99 wrote:
    A baby monitor picks up the aliens but a radio wont? huh?
    I haven't seen the movie yet but my baby monitor picked up the neighbor's phone all the time. You could only hear the neighbor. Whoever they were talking to didn't come through. Makes one a little more careful what one says on those cordless phones. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: beskeptical on 2002-08-04 05:46 ]</font>

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    I enjoyed the movie. It had good cinemetography and good acting (some of Mel Gibson's facial expressions were priceless!). It also had a perfect mixture of intensity and humor. I especially enjoyed how the perspective of "everything has a purpose" was brought into play - and shown [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] .

    As per BA, well, I didn't even catch any astronomy in the film (unless you consider aliens as a part of astronomy).

    *SPOILERS*

    As per critique points: When people began expecting the crop circles all over the world were being created for a hostile purpose, why didn't they plow over the areas in the fields to destroy the "circles"? How come Graham (main character) didn't call the sherrif about the alien in the pantry?

    As per the baby monitor vs. radio question, it all depends on what the frequency is; for whatever reason, the baby monitor had the correct frequency. Things just conveniently happen to work out like that in movies.

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    On 2002-08-04 09:05, nebularain wrote:

    As per BA, well, I didn't even catch any astronomy in the film (unless you consider aliens as a part of astronomy).
    So you are saying the aliens were from Middle Earth? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    On 2002-08-04 18:37, beskeptical wrote:
    On 2002-08-04 09:05, nebularain wrote:

    As per BA, well, I didn't even catch any astronomy in the film (unless you consider aliens as a part of astronomy).
    So you are saying the aliens were from Middle Earth? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
    Pellucidar?

    Silas

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    **WARNING SPOILERS**

    Verdict: I liked it. There was some unbelievable parts like the worldwide reactions, and it kind of takes after the TV show, 'The Chronicle', where the tabloid stuff is really true, but overall 3 stars for laughs, (funny things, not laughs at dumb things), and making you jump even when you could guess something was coming.

    But BA, definitely! I can't believe you (above) missed it.

    Aliens destroyed by water yet they chose a planet to invade that's surface is about 75% water?

    How much water vapor in the atmosphere does it take to harm them if water on the skin dissolves their skin? Wouldn't that be like us going to a planet with a strong acid in the atmosphere?

    If water is toxic to them their body fluids shouldn't be water based, so it would seem unlikely they were from a planet with an Earthlike atmosphere. Yet they didn't need space suits nor supplied air.

    If they landed 'all over the world', wouldn't the chances be high that it would have been raining at least somewhere they picked?

    They had enough leg strength to jump to the rooftop of the farmhouse. Yet, they couldn't kick down the cellar door.

    They had the technology to get to Earth from another planet, solar system and/or galaxy yet they had no technology to use once on Earth. No weapons, yet they were hostile. Intelligent yet no weapons.

    How did they make the crop circles? What force, or did they stomp down the corn with their feet? Were they unable to use that force for any other purpose?

    They had to navigate to get here. They would of had to survey the planet to decide where to mark the circles. Wouldn't they have had a more GPS type technology than big wheatfield markings?

    And, finally a couple bad biology items:

    Chances would be higher for a liquid poison rather than a gas, but it could be possible.

    But the typical medical blunder in a dying scene was too much. If you are almost cut in half by being pinned between a truck and a tree, you would exsanguinate within minutes no matter how tightly you were pinned. The crushing injuries would have ruptured every tiny blood vessel and capillary in the area and blood would leak like a squeezed sponge. I don't know why they couldn't have asked someone who knew medicine to review that scene. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: beskeptical on 2002-08-05 16:01 ]</font>

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    ** SPOILERS INCLUDED **

    I also enjoyed the movie. Shamalaya is a great director - what I loved is that he never uses ID4-like special effects to show the 'invasion,' all you know is what Mel Gibson's family knows (ie. what they see on the news).

    My only gripe with the movie is the alien's 'weakness.' I'm sure a creative guy like Shamalaya could think of something other than *water*. Plus, the 'Aliens-are-killed-by-water' thing has already been done in another movie (Alien Nation I think it was called).

    Overall, I still liked it, Bad Astronomy (or Chemistry?) notwithstanding


    B.E.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bad Engineer on 2002-08-05 08:18 ]</font>

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bad Engineer on 2002-08-05 08:32 ]</font>

  9. #9
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    in the cheap-and-cheerful film "Day of the Triffids", the plants are visitors from outer space and are killed by - sea-water.

  10. #10
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    On 2002-08-05 08:18, Bad Engineer wrote:
    Plus, the 'Aliens-are-killed-by-water' thing has already been done in another movie (Alien Nation I think it was called).
    Wasn't that The Wizard of Oz?

    No, wait, that was a witch that got killed and not an alien. But, then again, maybe Dorothy was on another planet, so then the witch would have been an alien, right?

  11. #11
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    On 2002-08-05 09:48, nebularain wrote:
    On 2002-08-05 08:18, Bad Engineer wrote:
    Plus, the 'Aliens-are-killed-by-water' thing has already been done in another movie (Alien Nation I think it was called).
    Wasn't that The Wizard of Oz?

    No, wait, that was a witch that got killed and not an alien. But, then again, maybe Dorothy was on another planet, so then the witch would have been an alien, right?
    You could argue that Dorothy was the alien in the eyes of the witch, and since humans immersed in H20 cease to live, at a stretch you could say that's another Alien-killed-by-water scenario.

  12. #12
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    beskeptical (or is it Beskeptigal? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img])
    I actually did pick up all of the water ones and some of the car pinning ones. (the car might act as a turniqute and keep her alive for a hour or so. But her chestt was crushed too so he diafragm and lungs were probobly crushed or collapsed, so she probobly should not of been able to breath at all in the first place, but oh well.) I forgot about the atmosphere and the body fluids ones tought, thanks!! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]. I want to see it again to pick up on all of the things i missed. I have to admit i was watching more for the movie than to critique it.

    But physically it can make sense that watter screws them up. Water is a very good molecule for absorbing things.
    (Just think how fast water absorbs salt and sugar) Maybe their skin is not protected against the water absorbtion and just is absorbed very fast. Think about it. Even we are absorbed to a small degree by water. If you stay in water long enought without the protective layer of skin and oils on you, you will dissolve too (altought at a much slower rate).

    But the movie did say that they were beaten in the east coast by "a primitive device". Maybe it was reaining there? It does rain alot on the east coast (i can testify about that).

    But i agree with you. If they are so smart why pick a planet with 75% water? Maybe the reason is, is that we are the only life in the universe other than them so they wanted to get rid of us before we advanced enougth to kill them. Also maybe they have never been on a planet with liquid water before so they did not know they were killed by it?

    Finally they said they will not use advanced weapons because we will une nuclear weapons and destroy the planet.

    Finally why did we not see such a large force soming towards us in space? They must of had hundrds of thousands of ships to have enought people to take over a planet, so we must of been able to see something right?

  13. #13
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    On 2002-08-05 14:18, g99 wrote:
    beskeptical (or is it Beskeptigal? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img])


    Either will do. The name was suggested after everyone thought I was a he when I am a she.

    g99: I actually did pick up all of the water ones and some of the car pinning ones. (the car might act as a turniqute and keep her alive for a hour or so.

    Minutes, maybe; an hour, no way. You can bleed out your entire blood volume into your body very quickly. It doesn't have to exit the skin. Also, we're talking aorta, a huge artery. Half the blood volume would be trapped in the lower half of the body. The main pumping action of the heart would be to the dead end abdominal aorta. The rest would be forced into some moderate size arteries that branch off the aorta in the chest cavity. Your whole circulatory system would be so traumatized it just couldn't function.

    And, if you could live for an hour, you might be able to survive. It's unlikely the medical system would give up on someone who had enough left to hold on an hour.

    g99: But physically it can make sense that watter screws them up. Water is a very good molecule for absorbing things.
    (Just think how fast water absorbs salt and sugar) Maybe their skin is not protected against the water absorbtion and just is absorbed very fast. Think about it. Even we are absorbed to a small degree by water. If you stay in water long enought without the protective layer of skin and oils on you, you will dissolve too (altought at a much slower rate).


    I think you might be confusing absorbtion with dissolving. Water is a solvent for lots of things. But our bodies are 80+% water so if we dissolved in water we'd be in trouble.

    If you place a steak (equivilent to muscle tissue) in water, it doesn't dissolve. Bacterial action will eventually break down the tissue and it may appear to be dissolving.


    g99: But the movie did say that they were beaten in the east coast by "a primitive device". Maybe it was reaining there? It does rain alot on the east coast (i can testify about that).

    I think they said 'Middle East' but why quibble.

    g99: But i agree with you. If they are so smart why pick a planet with 75% water? Maybe the reason is, is that we are the only life in the universe other than them so they wanted to get rid of us before we advanced enougth to kill them.

    Maybe. How did they survey such a large expanse?

    g99: Also maybe they have never been on a planet with liquid water before so they did not know they were killed by it?

    Maybe, but unlikely. That would be more BA since there is plenty of water in the Universe. To think there are no other planets with liquid water is not too likely.

    g99: Finally they said they will not use advanced weapons because we will une nuclear weapons and destroy the planet.

    But they didn't even use low tech weapons. If a knife could cut off a finger or two wouldn't a machine gun be as effective as water, and wouldn't that be discovered rather quickly?

    g99: Finally why did we not see such a large force soming towards us in space? They must of had hundrds of thousands of ships to have enought people to take over a planet, so we must of been able to see something right?

    That's a good one. Definitely BA. And they were hidden from view by an 'optical' camouflage so why weren't they visible with other detection devices?


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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: beskeptical on 2002-08-05 15:52 ]</font>

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    Beskeptigal - to answer your question, I wasn't sure about considering the aliens as BA because for aliens to be "astronomy" they should also "science", and since aliens as seen in such movies are neither falsifiable nor do they fulfill the requirement of making predictions, I couldn't consider them as science and therefore couldn't consider them to be included in astronomy.

    Now, pseudoscience - that's different.

    Oh, g99 - the movie showed the aliens had a way to make themselves blend into the background and make their ships invisible (remember the reporter talking about the bird that appeared to have flown into something above the city?), so maybe that's how their ships could have been unseen before they got to Earth.

    Actually, I'm kind-of wondering why they needed the crop circles for navigation purposes. It's not like they couldn't find the centers of highest population (cities) by sight, right?

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    Killed by water in past movies:

    The Oz witch
    The Triffids
    And some movie where these big crystals came from meteorites and started growing massive structures (50's or 60's)
    An episode of RedGreen, (Canadian comedy show), had some giant grass that was going to over take the lodge but rain killed it.

    Didn't see any Alien Nation episodes or the movie.

    I'll bet there are more. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: beskeptical on 2002-08-05 15:59 ]</font>

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    Oh - not to diminish anyone's medical expetise, but I remember the sherrif mentioning that Graham's wife should not have been alive and was suprised that she still was. I think it adds on to the theme of "it was for a reason" and all that went along with that (because she had to stay alive long enough to give her husband the message that saved their lives).

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    SPOLIER WARNING!

    I could appreciate that this was a well made move, both the cinemagraphics and the acting. However, the story was lacking in many respects. Mentioned by several people here were the unlikelihood of the aliens weakness being water, why they could fly through space and easily hover, invisible!, in one spot, and yet had no means of breaking in a cellar door. They must have had some technology for punching star and moon shaped holes in wood.

    What bugged me most was the religious tone at the end. We have a character that seemingly believed that his god killed his wife just so that the man would have enough information to 1) save his son and 2) have his brother beat an alien to death. I am best described as _not religious_, but is this really the way believers think? His god could find no other way to tip him off than this? How about a burning bush that says "There's going to be an alien invasion and guess what? They don't like water! Buy some squirt guns."

    I just find that hard to think someone would believe this way. The fact that this is a story and is therefore contrived to reach this conclusion just kind of turned me off to the whole thing. The last scene was fairly predictable, given what led up to it, and as a whole, I did not find most of the "suspenseful" scenes all that suspenseful. (I did jump at the "hand under the pantry door" one, though. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] )



    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: honestmonkey on 2002-08-05 17:04 ]</font>

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    Thanks beskeptical. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I get confused alot. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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    On 2002-08-05 15:57, beskeptical wrote:
    Killed by water in past movies:

    The Oz witch
    The Triffids
    And some movie where these big crystals came from meteorites and started growing massive structures (50's or 60's) . . .
    "The Monolith Monsters." A weird and subtle thriller, very effective at presenting a non-sentient "monster." It was Salt Water, btw, not just water, that did for them. Ditto for the aliens in Alien Nation: not just water, but sea-water: it supposedly was like battery acid to them.

    Okay, I'm a sci-fi geek...

    Silas

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    I was going throught the whole movie untill the whole poison gas things) thinking that these aliens are really wimps. I mean come on, they carry no weapons, they are hurt by water, they just stand there while a guy grabs a bat and beats it with it, can't break a wooden door, can't break a board covering a window. Also they are really bad at tachtics. If they are so smart why do they show themselves to the whole world to let the whole world time to fight back. It makes alot more sense to me tocome in in the "cloak" mode and land. Then all at once attack all around the world with no notice. The movie makes them out to be really stupid, at least that is what i think (But for some reason i have the unnatural ability to always be wrong [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]).

    Who knows maybe they are the rednecks of the universe and are just drunk and looking for a good party? Makes sense to me. They were just screwing around and when the bird hit the spacecraft they thought it was a act of war and started to kill people (like in "Mars attacks").

    Oh one more thing about the whole water thing, would not the dew on the crops and ground burn away their feet? That was stupid of Shamalan to do that, he should of made their weakness bread pudding, that stuff can kill anyone.



  21. #21
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    Maybe there was something in the water. Considering that area was largley farm area there would be a high level of nitrates in the water(I know, I live in a major farm area of PA, water is not safe for drinking) Or it could've been a number of other possible things in the pollutants, now i'm sure water elsewhere isn't as dirty but it could be a possibility. As soon as the little girl first mentioned something about the water being bad I knew it was a key element for the outcome of the movie. Granted though, water on the crap and rain should've affected them as well. Oh well, fun movie.

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    On 2002-08-05 16:02, nebularain wrote:
    Oh - not to diminish anyone's medical expetise, but I remember the sherrif mentioning that Graham's wife should not have been alive and was suprised that she still was. I think it adds on to the theme of "it was for a reason" and all that went along with that (because she had to stay alive long enough to give her husband the message that saved their lives).
    There could have been other scenarios that were more plausible. It doesn't really change anything that there was a comment saying the wife shouldn't have been alive. Unless you wanted to put the whole scene into the category of crop circles and alien events, the injury and resulting events were not physically possible. It would be similar to having a talking decapitated head or something.

    And if an injured person could live an hour there is no way you'd just leave the person pinned to the tree in hopes their husband could get there in time to say goodbye.
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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: beskeptical on 2002-08-05 22:57 ]</font>

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    On 2002-08-05 16:43, g99 wrote:
    ...Also they are really bad at tachtics. If they are so smart why do they show themselves to the whole world to let the whole world time to fight back. It makes alot more sense to me tocome in in the "cloak" mode and land. Then all at once attack all around the world with no notice. The movie makes them out to be really stupid, at least that is what i think (But for some reason i have the unnatural ability to always be wrong [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]).

    Oh one more thing about the whole water thing, would not the dew on the crops and ground burn away their feet? That was stupid of Shamalan to do that, he should of made their weakness bread pudding, that stuff can kill anyone.
    Another two really good ideas. Don't be so hard on yourself. I certainly don't think you are always wrong. My philosophy is that whenever we are wrong we learn something so it's good. If you were always right life might be boring, no new stuff. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  24. #24
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    On 2002-08-05 22:52, beskeptical wrote:
    On 2002-08-05 16:43, g99 wrote:
    ...Also they are really bad at tachtics. If they are so smart why do they show themselves to the whole world to let the whole world time to fight back. It makes alot more sense to me tocome in in the "cloak" mode and land. Then all at once attack all around the world with no notice. The movie makes them out to be really stupid, at least that is what i think (But for some reason i have the unnatural ability to always be wrong [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]).

    Oh one more thing about the whole water thing, would not the dew on the crops and ground burn away their feet? That was stupid of Shamalan to do that, he should of made their weakness bread pudding, that stuff can kill anyone.
    Another two really good ideas. Don't be so hard on yourself. I certainly don't think you are always wrong. My philosophy is that whenever we are wrong we learn something so it's good. If you were always right life might be boring, no new stuff. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    Very enlighteniong. Thanks. I love asking questions more than answering them. I am more of a listener than a talker. That is why when i post most of my posts are questions. I just want to know things. I have always been told that you can never ask too many questions. (Heck my High School graduation quote was "if you don't ask the question who will?) But when i have an answer to something i will usually say it, even if i know i might be wrong.

    P.S. You sound like a professor or a teacher, what do you do for a profesion beskeptical? And where do you get your name from?

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    On 2002-08-05 16:43, g99 wrote:
    That was stupid of Shamalan to do that, he should of made their weakness bread pudding, that stuff can kill anyone.
    Fruitcake. Or diet shakes.

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    Water? Is that all? For truly menacing creatures, you should check out the movie Attack of the The Eye Creatures (sic). These creatures had no problem with water. No, they only exploded on contact with light! Talk about tough. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    (FYI, this movie was given the royal treatment on MST3K, which was the only way to watch movies like this.)

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    I love MST3k, it is on the sci fi channel evrey sat morning. Hilarious. Too bad they canceled it. Better than most shows that are on nowadays.

    I think the most realistic way to defeat the aliens was in War of the Worlds. They would not be at all immune to our disseases so one step on our plaet should kill them in a matter of days from just breathing one breath of air.

    That is one reason why we will never be able to colonize another planet. We are not immune to any other diseases. When the europeans come over the the americas, 90% of the pop in the americas was decimated. The same thing will happen to us if we ever go to another planet. The aliens should of took one step on our planet and a day later keeled over from sickness.


    P.S. It has been "scientifically proven" by many creationist scientists while doing experiments to prove that the universe is only 4 years old that bread pudding was the original substance that created the universe. So using the "Superman origin weakness theorem" (copyright 1491 1/2) that makes bread pudding the most dangerous substance in the universe.
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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2002-08-06 13:04 ]</font>

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    On 2002-08-06 13:00, g99 wrote:
    I love MST3k, it is on the sci fi channel evrey sat morning. Hilarious. Too bad they canceled it. Better than most shows that are on nowadays. I think the most realistic way to defeat the aliens was in War of th Worlds. They would not be at all immune to our disseases so one step on our plaet should kill them in a matter of days from just breathing one breath of air.

    That is one reason why we will never be able to colonize another planet. We are not immune to any other diseases. When the europeans come over the the americas, 90% of the pop in the americas was decimated. The same thing will happen to us if we ever go to another planet. The liensshould of took one step on our planet and a day later keeled over from sickness.
    Your example is contradicting your proposition, isn't it? The Europeans were not killed by American diseases, but rather vice versa.

    By that example, the aliens in War of the Worlds should have decimated us with their alien diseases.

    [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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    Actually europeans were hurt by native diseases, that is where we got syphyliss and i think one other disease (mumps?). But yes i agree, ther is not ads much information or study of the disease affect on eurpoeas. It is somewhat contradictory. But 90% of the americas did die of smallpox, flu, and other "common" dieases of europe. So what will happen to us when we go to other planets where the DNA of diseases have never even interacted with out DNA. Will they even be able to interact?


    True, the alien diseases should of killed many of us. It probobly will, but maybe they did not have enought person to person cantact to do that to us. But only required to breath our air to sicken them. Maybe, but who knows. You are right, i have never thought of thier affect on us. That is a scary thought. A alien comes down to earth to invite us into a galaxy wide consortium of peace and it causes the extinction of the human race by touching one of us. Yikes!!
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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2002-08-06 13:19 ]</font>

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    On 2002-08-05 16:21, honestmonkey wrote:
    What bugged me most was the religious tone at the end. We have a character that seemingly believed that his god killed his wife just so that the man would have enough information to 1) save his son and 2) have his brother beat an alien to death. I am best described as _not religious_, but is this really the way believers think? His god could find no other way to tip him off than this? How about a burning bush that says "There's going to be an alien invasion and guess what? They don't like water! Buy some squirt guns."
    I'll just say that there are principles of life. One of them being that in order for the plant to live and grow, the seed must first die. To put it into astonomical terms, in order for a planetary nebula to exist and for the heavier elements to be formed, the star must first die. Take this as you will.

    One can also say that they want to be irritated with the presentation, and another can say that they can learn from it. In the movie, Graham chose to be bitter over his circumstances, but when he found purpose to them he let go of his bitterness and found peace. We all may not find purpose to our pain and hardships, but we can chose to hold on to bitterness over them, or we can chose to believe there is purpose and be able to find peace. Is that such a bad message?

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