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Thread: Where are they?

  1. #1
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    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...B81809EC588EF21

    If civilisations only take say 10000 years to evolve to the stage where they can send radio transmissions, why haven't we heard from aliens. Even if civilisations take 1 million years to evolve to state where they can travel to other solar systems, the galaxy should still be swarming with life.

    What's your opinion? Why haven't we heard from alien civilisations?

  2. #2
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    I can see these possiblities:

    1)Maybe they think we are too primitive.
    2)Maybe they haven't evolved into advanced forms yet.
    3)Maybe they have evolved at a different size or are of a different composition, and so, have invented other methods of communicating.
    4)Maybe there exist no other 'civilised' beings.
    5)Maybe we are the only being in existence.

  3. #3
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    perhaps they have advanced at the same rate as us but probably faster and are far to far a way to even have registered any of our earth based radio waves theres a lot to look for maby they arnt even looking its a matter of time though

  4. #4
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    Yeah they probably are way too advanced to send radio waves...but if they are, they would have had to pick up our transmissions...Or maybe they haven't advanced as much as us..or maybe they are this magical race somewhere That'd be cool Like the books by Phillip Pullman Not that i've read all of them, but reading 1

  5. #5
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    WHAT THEY ARE JUST STUDYING US FROM A FAR WAITING TILL WE COULD HANDLE THE FACT THAT "WE ARNT ALONE" MABYE THERE SEE ALL THE HATE HERE ON EARTH AND DONT WANT TO INTRODUCE THERE EXSISTANCE YET. TILL WE ARE WORTH MEETING!!!!!

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    I don't know about the 10,000 or one million years. We might not have evolved at all if the dinosaurs hadn't been fortuitously wiped out. And I think it's unlikely that we will ever develop practical interstellar travel for human beings.

    The galaxy may be teeming with life, but the odds are against its being intelligent. Intelligent aliens may be so rare that they are too distant for radio waves to/from them to have yet arrived. Give it another million years or so.

  7. #7
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    Their probably here;

    http://www.alienwar.com/page9.htm

    After reading the 5 or so page excerpt, go to manuscript info, scroll down to home and the whole 100+ page manuscript can be read, on down the page.

    Some of the other stuff on the site is speculative to me, but the author claims to have been gone for 2 weeks, at their invitation.

    Prime

  8. #8
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    WHAT THEY ARE JUST STUDYING US FROM A FAR WAITING TILL WE COULD HANDLE THE FACT THAT "WE ARNT ALONE" MABYE THERE SEE ALL THE HATE HERE ON EARTH AND DONT WANT TO INTRODUCE THERE EXSISTANCE YET. TILL WE ARE WORTH MEETING

    REPLY: Feel the same. Our perceptions of life, advanced technological society, contact, theories on how many years it takes to create a species termed a civilization, all this is most likely a non-entity when it comes to true contact. We humans simply engage in our own subjective reality of the universe at large and ponder our so called place within it without taking a good subjective look at our own life forms and the fact that our place within our own selves is filled with extreme negative uncreative so called life forces.

    If life is universal, then human influence cannot be that positive within universal eternity. With this reality in mind, perhaps those advanced life forms out there are honestly not interested in us over here except to steer as clear away as possible.

    What we influence is where we learn from, and it seems that we cannot locate anyone with our SETI program thus far. Maybe we are conducting the search in a manner truly opposite of something else within creation's existence, and we are just going about it in all the wrong way. Maybe we need to seek contact through a wormhole type of method, or just begin the search in another manner. Why, because we haven't thus far succeeded with what we think we know. There must be another answer, another method that is totally escaping us.

  9. #9
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    If the behavior of the "Family of (hu)Man" towards each other is any indication, it might be best that no extraterrestrials stop by Earth. Assuming that there is intelligent life elsewhere, the prohibitively immense distances between likely star systems may be part of the plan of a Supreme Being. -But, like engelbach says, let's give it another million years.

    I realize that this is a more philosophical (and perhaps cynical) than scientific opinion. I'll enjoy hearing more of what others have to say about

    -G

  10. #10
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    I just think it is the height of arrogance to think our pale, blue dot has been touched by the mystery of intelligent life.

  11. #11
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    I can think of a few explanations:
    • The chance of intelligent life to arise is low. (I don't know how common life is, but it's just a thought.)
    • Intelligent life does not necessarily have to form a technological civilization. Therefor we would never notice them unless we went there.
    • Some of the technological civilizations might destroy themselves.
    • Some of them might have existed but was annihilated by an asteroid etc.
    • If they are at our level of technology, chances of hearing them would be small unless they sent a strong message directed at us.
    • If their intelligence and technology is superior to ours, they may think they have nothing to gain by establishing contact, or they want to leave us alone.

    Just a few thoughts there.

  12. #12
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    I can think of a few explanations:

    The chance of intelligent life to arise is low. (I don't know how common life is, but it's just a thought.)
    Intelligent life does not necessarily have to form a technological civilization. Therefor we would never notice them unless we went there.
    Some of the technological civilizations might destroy themselves.
    Some of them might have existed but was annihilated by an asteroid etc.
    If they are at our level of technology, chances of hearing them would be small unless they sent a strong message directed at us.
    If their intelligence and technology is superior to ours, they may think they have nothing to gain by establishing contact, or they want to leave us alone.

    REPLY: But, in essence, these are the explanations postulated by Carl Sagan. Good postulations non-the-less, but now, we need some honest clarification, and perhaps a rehash of the entire method of conducting the search as well as a grasp at who and what we are and why we haven't thus far made contact. Perhaps we need to come of age, and begin to search for a new categorical imperative on the whys and wherefores of conducting the search.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by astrophysicsrose@Oct 5 2003, 12:43 PM
    I can think of a few explanations:

    The chance of intelligent life to arise is low. (I don't know how common life is, but it's just a thought.)
    Intelligent life does not necessarily have to form a technological civilization. Therefor we would never notice them unless we went there.
    Some of the technological civilizations might destroy themselves.
    Some of them might have existed but was annihilated by an asteroid etc.
    If they are at our level of technology, chances of hearing them would be small unless they sent a strong message directed at us.
    If their intelligence and technology is superior to ours, they may think they have nothing to gain by establishing contact, or they want to leave us alone.

    REPLY: But, in essence, these are the explanations postulated by Carl Sagan. Good postulations non-the-less, but now, we need some honest clarification, and perhaps a rehash of the entire method of conducting the search as well as a grasp at who and what we are and why we haven't thus far made contact. Perhaps we need to come of age, and begin to search for a new categorical imperative on the whys and wherefores of conducting the search.
    But, in essence, these are the explanations postulated by Carl Sagan. Good postulations non-the-less, but now, we need some honest clarification, and perhaps a rehash of the entire method of conducting the search as well as a grasp at who and what we are and why we haven't thus far made contact. Perhaps we need to come of age, and begin to search for a new categorical imperative on the whys and wherefores of conducting the search.

    Personally I think we should listen more than we do now, and perhaps be more active and not passive. I think we should send out messages to some selected targets. Maybe it will work, maybe not. The targets could be better selected if we could search for earth-sized exoplanets.

  14. #14
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    Perhaps they have recieve our radio and TV transmission, and decided to not reply, or come knocking. Would you?

    I believe the first TV transmissions sent into space related to Hitler. Those transmissions would be around 80 LY along by now.
    Then if they were enroute, and saw Walter Kronkite from the early 1960s reporting Vietnam, arms race, cold war, and possible nuclear anniliation of each other, they may call a committe meeting.

    Then to see the 1972 US election, and watergate which followed, along with a president who said, "Read my lips" what would they think?

    Follow with exclusive footage of two major wars at the very site man was created mind you, and I think they' be turning around and asking Scotty for more warp power to head home before we see them. h34r:

  15. #15
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    Our galaxy is about 100000 ly across then it would take at most 100000 years to recieve radiowaves from them. We've only been able to recieve and transmit radio waves for about 100 years, maybe radiowaves from other races might have been reaching Earth for thousands of years but we never had the technology to 'hear' them. What if they anniahlated themselves and their last signal came to Earth 150 years ago. We wouldn't have heard them.

  16. #16
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    There is another possibility. That we have heard them...that they may have even visted here (now or many thousands of years ago). Obviously this is just speculation, but so is this is entire thread!

    Also...I love to play devil's advocate (in case you haven't realised), and although I have frequently highlighted how barbaric the human race is on this forum, let's not forget the great cultural acheivements of humanity, many of which have been broadcast into interstellar space. I wonder if the appeal of J.S. Bach is not just global, but also Universal (at least galactical).

    Kashi

  17. #17
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    Hi folks. Mikey here (http://members.aol.com/StarMikeBest)

    If the universe is 13.7 billion years old, and
    If stars came along 2 million years later, and
    if the solar system is 4.6 billion years old, and
    if life first emerged 1 billion years after Earth formed, and
    if we have only had a grasp on "wassup" for 100 years or so, then
    it would appear we may be late arrivals to a gazillion parties that were held and are over.
    We may have come along pretty late in the game. Most of the "party" goers have arrived, done their thing, and left.
    And don't take our efforts of monitoring radio since 1960 as proof one way or another.
    There are a gazillion radio frequencies to monitor.
    And the biggee --
    To receive a signal, we must be "exactically" the same distance from the source in light years as the length of time ago that a message left there.
    That coincidence fo time and "time?" amkes it very iffy that we will hear anything.
    If an interstellar message passed by Earth 100 years ago we would have missed it.
    If an interstellar radio message arrives in another 100 years we will miss it also because we will, by then, be beyond "antiquated" radio technology.
    Check out The SETI Institute (Search for Ectraterrestrial Intelligence) (http://www.seti-inst.edu/general/Welcome.html) for up to date info by real scientists doing real science.
    Good luck -- bon chance

  18. #18
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    Even if we invent something better than radio to communicate, we have no idea if the others have done the same. Radio will be one of the things we might have in common, if they're about to communicate at all.

  19. #19
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    We need to consider another point.

    We have emerged on the earth 35,000 years ago as a species, but radio astronomy began just about 50 or so years ago, that too due to co-incidence.
    If that co-incidence had not hapenned, we would probably have had to wait for anything between another 10 years to infinity for it's invention.

    We can surmise that even if aliens exist, they may have developed other methods of communication, and the probablity of them having radio astronomy as a feild at the same time as us is, I believe, very small.

  20. #20
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    Yeah but once you've got it, it doesn't go anywhere.

  21. #21
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    I see no reason why a culture that managed to develop devices to transmit and observe electromagnetic radiation with those wavelengths would suddenly stop doing it.

  22. #22
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    how can you expect aliens to think/act/communicate like humans do?
    it's too egocentric

  23. #23
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    If they are a culture with science and technology, it's impossible that they could have missed electromagnetic radiation... Sooner or later they would learn about it.

  24. #24
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    I agree...it's not just some arbitary concept.

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    I think for intersteller transport to be invented, you need a good reason. I think it's more likley to be developed quicker in star clusters or multiple star systems, with multiple planets, is Alpha Cen has planets chances are they'll devlo[pe star travel before us. Our lunar expadition came about through our clocetive discoveries and the close proximity of the moon.

  26. #26
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    well...less technology would be needed if your destination was closer.

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by zephyr46@Oct 31 2003, 05:13 AM
    I think for intersteller transport to be invented, you need a good reason. I think it's more likley to be developed quicker in star clusters or multiple star systems, with multiple planets, is Alpha Cen has planets chances are they'll devlo[pe star travel before us. Our lunar expadition came about through our clocetive discoveries and the close proximity of the moon.
    Makes sense. It would be much more difficult for us to begin interplanetary travel if it meant we had to go to another planet right away without "practicing" on closer objects...

  28. #28
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    But interplanetary travel would also be less of an acheivement if the the destination was near.

  29. #29
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    But interplanetary travel would also be less of an acheivement if the the destination was near.
    Yes, but you need to start somewhere. Once you do something small, you feel more confident about doing something bigger, with more risks.

    Learn to walk before you learn to run.

  30. #30
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    knowing the world today, we would probably get scared and try to kill them.

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