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Thread: Pronunciation of Kuiper ?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Nuisance, Kuiper.

    Makes sense.
    I didn't realize until I just looked it up that nuisance has another pronunciation, as NYOO-sens

  2. #62
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    It's the first one that comes to my mind, though, now that I think about it, I have heard the alternate pronunciation "noosance" a few times, too.

  3. #63
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    German pronunciations:

    Kuiper - koy-pur
    Sirius - Sir-ee-us
    Cepheid - Ceh-fide
    Cassiopeia - Cah-see-oo-pie-uh

  4. #64
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    Nicolas posted a nice link to a .wav file with the pronounciation.

    If you want to know how to move your jaw and mouth, you could check my post.

    for the ui sound:
    for u(i) sound of eu in europe but the jaw almost lowerd the the y in why
    for ui just add a y

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Back when I was wondering about the different pronunciations of Huygens (Cassini-What?), I found a site that has MP3s of the presumably authentic Dutch pronunciations of famous names.

    Kuiper is in this MP3 of Brouwer-Kuiper-Escher-Zeeman-Lorentz
    Bump

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy
    Bump

    that K had a really hard rough sound. Khi-per almost


    I'll say it that way.
    My travel blog Mostly about riding a motorcycle across the US and Europe. Also has cool things that happen in between.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosscountry
    that K had a really hard rough sound. Khi-per almost


    I'll say it that way.
    It's with a lazy accent, too.

  8. #68
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    Bumping this thread from last fall to ask for help.

    I just asked an astronomer who worked with Gerard Kuiper how
    Kuiper pronounced his name. This was my e-mail to him:

    > I haven't been able to find a reliable guide to pronouncing the
    > name "Kuiper". Most sources indicate that Gerard Kuiper modified
    > it for American speakers to rhyme with "piper" or "typer". Some
    > say that it should sound like "koy-per". I believe that the
    > Dutch pronunciation is somewhere between the two. Can you tell
    > me what pronunciation he used? Thank you!

    This was his reply:

    > Jeff, I tried all three, and the last one seems it.
    > For kicks, you should try the Dutch one also, there
    > must be many Dutch out there. Cheers, Tom

    The problem is, I don't understand his answer. What do you
    think he meant? Do I need to write back and ask him to express
    himself more clearly?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  9. #69
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    Always thought it rhymed with Felt.

    remember to tip your waitstaff.

  10. #70
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Bumping this thread from last fall to ask for help.

    I just asked an astronomer who worked with Gerard Kuiper how
    Kuiper pronounced his name. This was my e-mail to him:

    > I haven't been able to find a reliable guide to pronouncing the
    > name "Kuiper". Most sources indicate that Gerard Kuiper modified
    > it for American speakers to rhyme with "piper" or "typer". Some
    > say that it should sound like "koy-per". I believe that the
    > Dutch pronunciation is somewhere between the two. Can you tell
    > me what pronunciation he used? Thank you!

    This was his reply:

    > Jeff, I tried all three, and the last one seems it.
    > For kicks, you should try the Dutch one also, there
    > must be many Dutch out there. Cheers, Tom

    The problem is, I don't understand his answer. What do you
    think he meant? Do I need to write back and ask him to express
    himself more clearly?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    I'd say by "the last one" he meant "koy-per". I do wish I knew what the third pronunciation was supposed to be, as I don't imagine that he'd have "tried" the Dutch one.

  11. #71
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    Back in article #20, I provided a link to an MP3 of a Dutch man pronouncing names of famous Nederlanders. Kuiper is among them. Rather than getting someone's approximation of a phonetic spelling, why not listen to the pronunciation and use that? That can't be off by much from what the Kuiper-man himself uses.

    I'm not sure any combination of roman letters, interpreted by an English-speaker, will really capture all the subtleties of sounds there. Probably the IPA symbols could render it, but there's never a linguist around when you need one.

    Maybe's he's changed it for everyday, Anglicized it, to suit an English-speaking audience. If so, it still wouldn't be wrong to go back to the source.
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    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

  12. #72
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    The astronomer (Tom) confirmed that the pronunciation he favors
    is "koy-per". That was suggested by another astronomer who knows
    Tom but did not know Kuiper, and supported by a third person who
    posted in sci.astro saying that people in his part of Arizona,
    where Kuiper lived the last several years of his life, pronounce
    it "koy-per".

    However, Wikipedia, MSN Encarta, the Columbia Encyclopedia
    (at Bartleby.com), and the ink-on-paper 'Pronouncing Dictionary
    of Proper Names' all specify a pronunciation which rhymes with
    "piper" and "typer", like "ky-per".

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Back in article #20, I provided a link to an MP3 of a Dutch man
    pronouncing names of famous Nederlanders. Kuiper is among them.
    Yes. I thought the sound quality was poor, but another Dutch
    speaker said that the recording is correct. So I take that to
    be correct pronunciation in Dutch.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Rather than getting someone's approximation of a phonetic
    spelling, why not listen to the pronunciation and use that?
    That can't be off by much from what the Kuiper-man himself uses.
    The question really is "What is the standard pronunciation of
    the term 'Kuiper belt' in English?" Not the pronunciation of
    Kuiper's name in Dutch.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    I'm not sure any combination of roman letters, interpreted by an
    English-speaker, will really capture all the subtleties of sounds
    there. Probably the IPA symbols could render it, but there's never
    a linguist around when you need one.
    I actually find the IPA somewhat deficient in places, but what
    is really needed is good-quality sound recordings.

    The recording you linked to sounds very close to "karper", as
    spoken with a northern/midwestern US accent. The "r" coloring
    of the vowel sound is similar to that of "oe" in the German
    name "Goethe".

    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Maybe's he's changed it for everyday, Anglicized it, to suit
    an English-speaking audience. If so, it still wouldn't be wrong
    to go back to the source.
    That's fine for people who speak Dutch and people who are more
    interested in pronunciation than in communication. It is lousy
    for Joe Blow who wants to know how to say "Kuiper belt."

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  14. #74
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    I met Dr. Kuiper shortly before he died in 1973. I was nine. He had a house in Tucson, on the west side of Sawtelle Avenue, just south of Himmel Park. His yard was surrounded by an ivy-covered fence and had very dense shade trees. It was a dark, magical kind of place, very different from the conventional open-lawn yards everyone else had. He was friendly, and we talked for a while about my interest in astronomy.

    Jeff Root is essentially correct:
    Most sources indicate that Gerard Kuiper modified it for American speakers to rhyme with "piper" or "typer". Some say that it should sound like "koy-per". I believe that the Dutch pronunciation is somewhere between the two.

    The way he pronounced it, it mostly rhymed with "piper", but he still had his accent, so a trace of the "koy-per" still crept in to it.
    The historical record of Apollo is overwhelming - greater than anything you can glean from questions on a bulletin board. That America abandoned Apollo (and the spirit it engendered) is a travesty. To persistently maintain that it never happened in the first place is nothing short of despicable.

  15. #75
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    So where does that leave the effective communicator, Mr. Blow? Does he use the pronunciation most English speakers employ, or the one most cited by references (which may or not be the same)? Or, the Dutch one, to at least give off worldly airs? Or the anglicized one, with a hint of Dutch accent, that Mr. Kuiper proferred? Or, the anglicized one without accent that his colleagues probably used? Or Throat-warbler-mangrove?
    Last edited by 01101001; 2006-Aug-23 at 04:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    The recording you linked to sounds very close to "karper", as
    spoken with a northern/midwestern US accent. The "r" coloring
    of the vowel sound is similar to that of "oe" in the German
    name "Goethe".
    The "ar" in English "karper" and the "oe" in German "Goethe" sound completely different to me.
    But I'm being nitpicky. Yes, for those who equate "correct" with "Dutch" in this case, a good recording is what you need. And perhaps a Dutch speaker or a linguist to explain how the sound is pronounced, too.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root
    The recording you linked to sounds very close to "karper", as
    spoken with a northern/midwestern US accent. The "r" coloring
    of the vowel sound is similar to that of "oe" in the German
    name "Goethe".
    The "ar" in English "karper" and the "oe" in German "Goethe"
    sound completely different to me.
    Well, naturally. I was comparing the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "ui" in "Kuiper" to the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "oe" in "Goethe". I wasn't comparing the vowel
    sounds themselves, and I wasn't comparing "ar" to "oe".

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  18. #78
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    I don't have any problems with pronouncing "Kuipergordel"

    (except for my general problem with the letter r)
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  19. #79
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    I was comparing the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "ui" in "Kuiper" to the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "oe" in "Goethe". I wasn't comparing the vowel
    sounds themselves, and I wasn't comparing "ar" to "oe".

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    How can there be "r"-coloration where there is no "r"?

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root
    I was comparing the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "ui" in "Kuiper" to the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "oe" in "Goethe". I wasn't comparing the vowel
    sounds themselves, and I wasn't comparing "ar" to "oe".
    How can there be "r"-coloration where there is no "r"?
    Maybe it's something like the way there can be yellow on your
    monitor screen even though it only has red, green, and blue
    phosphors.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  21. #81
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    Actually it is pronounced ""Throat Warbler Mangrove"

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Maybe it's something like the way there can be yellow on your
    monitor screen even though it only has red, green, and blue
    phosphors.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    Or maybe not. How about a decent answer?

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root
    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root
    I was comparing the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "ui" in "Kuiper" to the "r" coloration of the
    vowel sound "oe" in "Goethe". I wasn't comparing the vowel
    sounds themselves, and I wasn't comparing "ar" to "oe".
    How can there be "r"-coloration where there is no "r"?
    Maybe it's something like the way there can be yellow on your
    monitor screen even though it only has red, green, and blue
    phosphors.
    Or maybe not. How about a decent answer?
    What is wrong with the answer I gave? The two appear to be
    quite similar phenomenae. Certainly the details are different,
    but in general terms a spurious color resulting from some
    combination of other colors is much like a spurious sound
    resulting from a combination of other sounds.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    What is wrong with the answer I gave?
    There is no r-coloring in German Goethe or Dutch Kuiper. You used the wrong term (I think "rounding" is what you were looking for), but don't want to admit it.

  25. #85
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    Here's my take on the correct pronunciation of the Dutch -ui- diphthong:

    Inside the mouth your tongue is pronouncing the [ai] diphthong as in the English typer.

    Outside the mouth your lips are rounded into the shape they normally adopt when you pronounce the [oi] diphthong as in the English coy.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001 View Post
    Back in article #20, I provided a link to an MP3 of a Dutch man pronouncing names of famous Nederlanders. Kuiper is among them. Rather than getting someone's approximation of a phonetic spelling, why not listen to the pronunciation and use that? That can't be off by much from what the Kuiper-man himself uses.

    I'm not sure any combination of roman letters, interpreted by an English-speaker, will really capture all the subtleties of sounds there. Probably the IPA symbols could render it, but there's never a linguist around when you need one.

    Maybe's he's changed it for everyday, Anglicized it, to suit an English-speaking audience. If so, it still wouldn't be wrong to go back to the source.
    it sounds to me very guttoral like German. Maybe it does ryme with piper but the K is what causes the mixup. Dutch doesn't pronounce K the same as in English
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  27. #87
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    There's no vowel in the English alphabet that can pronounce the 'Kui' in Kuiper. The pronounciation that comes closest to the Dutch pronounciation is 'Cowper' where the 'w' is silent.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuiper View Post
    There's no vowel in the English alphabet that can pronounce the 'Kui' in Kuiper. The pronounciation that comes closest to the Dutch pronounciation is 'Cowper' where the 'w' is silent.
    Correct, en tevens juist. Welcome to the forum, Kuiper!
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  29. #89
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    I just figured it was like Kai Yeves.

    ETA: Oh, and does "Kuiper" mean a guy who makes barrels? I love occupational surnames. Even though I don't have one.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  30. #90
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    Let's just not get started on Oort.

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