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Thread: BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

  1. #1
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    Exclamation BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

    Folks-- I'll be "debating" Moon Hoax purveyor Bart Sibrel on the radio Monday at 5:00 central time. I'll have details on my blog on Monday morning. You'll be able to listen live to the thrashing as well.
    Last edited by The Bad Astronomer; 2005-Dec-14 at 01:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    *cues Dragnet theme*

  3. #3
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    Remember: Hit the soft parts with your hand,hit the hard parts with a utensil.

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    Just be careful....don't let him lead you anywhere.

    I'm sure you can take of yourself, though. Good luck

    Pete

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    Hi, BA. It sounds interesting. You mention that you will again be debating Bart Sibrel - how many times have you done so previously? Are these debates archived online? I would very much enjoy reading (or hearing) the past discussions. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    I debtaed him on the radio once and on MSNBC. The latter was not so good, though the radio one was fun (and I trounced him). I don't think they are archived anywhere, though I have them on tape. Someday I'll convert them to digital. :-)

    By the way, the blog entry is up.

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    The MSNBC appearance wasn't bad at all. I thought the only difficulty there was having to deal with the skimpy time constraint.

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    I am so hoping that Bart will mention his super-duper, exclusive, top secret Apollo 11 footage.

    ...I just wish I could figure out how to listen to it. I've followed all the instructions on the site to enable active x, but that's not helping...
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

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    I took notes on all of the BA/** appearances, so I know the questions and answers.

    Sibrel likes to spring things on people; that's the special nature of the sound bite. He can ask a question that would take perhaps hours of research to answer, and since his respondent has 30 seconds to answer off the top of his head, Sibrel comes off sounding as if he's stumped his critics. That's the big reason why I generally don't consent to "sound bite" appearances. If you aren't interested in information in-depth on such a large topic, then it largely doesn't matter what you believe or why.

    But one thing I'd definitely bring up is that is "secret" backstage footage comes largely from the 30-minute live telecast, not from the test blurbs that were included on his same reel. Because of the scary-looking disclaimer title, Sibrel wrongly concluded that everything on his reel had been secret and that very little had been shown to the public. Most of the brief clips he uses in A Funny Thing... (e.g., the pull-back from the window and the cabin light) are actually from the telecast that was seen by millions. So Sibrel's voiceover interpretation trying to explain that this was astronauts trying to get the fake shot right is totally out to lunch.

    I would definitely bring up the footage that Sibrel doesn't show from his reel. You can see it on the Spacecraft Films DVD. It's a brief, unnarrated view out the CM window showing the distant Earth, but also showing the window frame and the CSM interior. The motion of the Earth relative to the window as the camera position moves clearly demonstrates that the Earth is outside the ship and considerably far away. Here's an animated GIF of the relevant portion of the clip:

    http://www.clavius.org/img/distant-earth.gif

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    FYI: I'll have the Paltalk chatroom open today for the event.

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    Unfortunately I'll be swinging from the battens at the theater at that time and won't be able to hear it live.

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    Wow, I didn't realize Michael Shermer was going to be on the program. Talk about fish in a barrel...

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    Re: BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

    Half an hour in and the same old Bart. He just keeps repeating the same debunked claims over and over. Plus apparently having a "kiss up to the woowoo" host doesn't help.

    Good point-by-point review of the facts by Phil and Michael Shermer. Sibrel's interruptions just serve to help make Phil's and Mike's points.


    BTW, "97.1 FM TALK younger smarter better": somebody writing slogans for that station who used to work for NASA?

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    Re: BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

    Quote Originally Posted by JayUtah
    Unfortunately I'll be swinging from the battens at the theater at that time and won't be able to hear it live.
    Wow! What's the production, West Side Story?

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    Yeah, Sibrel's a pip. I don't know if he simply doesn't do any research (like, say, typing words into Google) or stops short of finding anything real, or forgets what he read, or simply lies. But it's one of those for sure. I can find simple answers to his questions in seconds on the web.

    He is actually still claiming the shadows are evidence. Wow.

  16. #16
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    What a dodge by Sibrel! Yeesh! I wish he'd answer the question of what evidence he'd accept that would demonstrate the landings were genuine.

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    Re: BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine
    What a dodge by Sibrel! Yeesh! I wish he'd answer the question of what evidence he'd accept that would demonstrate the landings were genuine.
    I think a key to Bart is that he will always avoid any response that might have a negative impact on the sales of his fiction-based productions.

    The quick response re the Sibrel Armstrong/bible/$5K proposal turn down, that "Neil Armstrong is a classy guy." was very classy.

    Sibrel wound up sounding just the opposite and stuck in a rut. As usual.

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    Listening to him weasel around the questions and refutations reminded me of attempting to nail a piece of jello to the wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine
    Listening to him weasel around the questions and refutations reminded me of attempting to nail a piece of jello to the wall.
    Who won? Jell-o or nail?
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

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    Re: BA Debates Bart Sibrel once again: Monday at 5:00 central time

    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Who won? Jell-o or nail?
    In this listener's humble opinion the Jell-o nevertheless got nailed. As a noted thespian and a quoted politician once wrote, "Facts are stubborn things."

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    The first time I've ever heard Mr. Sibrel talk, and I must say, his very tone of voice struck me as arrogant.

    I couldn't help but notice that he'd make his point in simple terms that seemed to make sense on the surface, then defended them against science with simple views of how things worked. Now, obviously that won't fool any scientists, but he used the time limit etc. to make his argument sound good to the average person watching the show, although it was a victory for Phil, it was closer then I would've liked, simply because public opinion probably hasn't swayed that much.

    However, I found that he loved to associate Apollo with bad things, OJ Simpson, the Holocaust, etc. No good in the debate, but an interesting strategy anyways.

    He didn't raise any new points, and I found him to be very rude, interrupting whenever the discussion wasn't going his way, choosing topics that would take a while to explain (the shadows come to mind), and that would work better with photos then words (again, shadows). An interesting duck at the end, shifting the focus away from himself to others, and then, and I love this part, Attacking Phil for taking physical evidence above personal testimony.

    His line went something like this: "What would it take for either of you two to believe that Apollo was hoaxed." Schermer said that if Neil said that it was faked that his belief would be shaken, Phil said that nothing could shake his, as he had physical proof, at which point Bart went on a rampage about how Phil wouldn't accept actual witness testimony.

    Anyways, it was a neat experience, although I actually hope that they don't do that 'rematch' that the host talked about.

  22. #22
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    When did WVB go to Antarctica and come back with "800" lbs of lunar rocks? Is this documented ? 800lbs is convieniant. Boy this guy makes fairy tales up better than the Brothers Grim.

    You rock BA. IMHO Mike distracted a little, you could have nail ** one-handed. Interesting what ** can also stand for.

  23. #23
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    Sibrel was confused (horrors!). About 800 pounds of rocks were brought back from the Moon. That is far, far more than the total known lunar meteorites found. As usual, he just makes stuff up and says it like it's fact.

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    Well not only that, Phil, but the first Lunite was discovered in 1979 and identified in 1981, over a decade after Apollo, and it was able to be identified because of the Apollo Samples. I'm not sure how you can get numerous soil samples and 8 foot long core samples from lunites either........

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    In Defense of Dave Glover

    Quote Originally Posted by Maksutov
    Plus apparently having a "kiss up to the woowoo" host doesn't help.
    Cite?!? Were we listening to the same radio show? Dave was not kissing up to anybody. I thought he was respectful of all three of his guests and faciliated the debate. Beyond that, I must have missed the part where he was kissing up to B.S.

    You are probably not use to his style of humor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maksutov
    BTW, "97.1 FM TALK younger smarter better": somebody writing slogans for that station who used to work for NASA?
    It probably takes a "rocket scientist" to make talk radio work on the FM dial. It's definitely the first of its' kind in St. Louis. Everything else is on AM.

  26. #26
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    Dang! My work prevented my catching the show live. Will it be available at the link or elsewhere later on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maksutov
    Plus apparently having a "kiss up to the woowoo" host doesn't help.
    I didn't think it was that bad. There wouldn't have been much point in inviting Sibrel on if they weren't going to at least give him a chance.

  28. #28
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    I also liked how Bart kept trying to draw a comparison between himself and Copurnacus (SP?). How C. was condemned for his belief that the Earth was not the center of the Univ. All the while Bart is the condemning anyone who believes the PROOF we went to the moon.

    I wish I was better at the words. Sorry, the ideas sound great in my head but just don't make it to the keys.

  29. #29
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    Is there a copy of this available anywhere? I alway miss the fun...

  30. #30
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    You didn't miss much. Same ol' Sibrel.

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