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Thread: International Star Registry

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by pghnative
    You can't be Sirius
    Shirly he can. He's just presenting some Altair-nets.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher
    Shirly he can. He's just presenting some Altair-nets.
    Wow, that was a killo post!
    We know time flies, we just can't see its wings.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by George
    Wow, that was a killo post!
    Nope, this was 999.
    Kilopost is here
    This is now 1001 and counting.

  4. #124
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    come on people!

    what is the matter with u?what difference does it make wether the star is actually recognised by the official organizations to be yours or not?it's a really nice gesture someone does for you.if you don't want the fancy certificates and stuff that you actually pay for just don't buy it.make your own.but it really doesn't make any difference if it's officially registered or not.not to anyone.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    what is the matter with u?what difference does it make wether the star is actually recognised by the official organizations to be yours or not?it's a really nice gesture someone does for you.if you don't want the fancy certificates and stuff that you actually pay for just don't buy it.make your own.but it really doesn't make any difference if it's officially registered or not.not to anyone.
    As one of the un-registered, we appreciate your insight into registration status.

    In reality, a lot of people believe that these things have some sort of official status. In the UK we have had newspapers (typically tabloids) that have had stars "named" after the tragic victims of horrendous crimes. To my mind, someone is being exploited here.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortis View Post
    In reality, a lot of people believe that these things have some sort of official status. In the UK we have had newspapers (typically tabloids) that have had stars "named" after the tragic victims of horrendous crimes. To my mind, someone is being exploited here.
    Yeah. And ften times it's distraught people, or people who are trying to perform some sort of grand gesture who haven't been told that the only thing they've actually purchased is a piece of paper and a little bit of ink in a book no one will ever see. People aren't getting what they think they're paying for, and no one on the receiving end of the money is piping up to fill them in on the details.

    It's just like people who go have psychic or astrological readings. You can say "Oh, it's all in good fun," but not everyone is in on it. They don't put up big signs saying "This is fake. Don't heed our advice."

    So, what ends up happening is someone names a star after someone for their birthday, or they name a star after their friends just departed daughter, and those people go to a nearby observatory, or even to an amature star party and ask to see their star, or their daughter's star. They're not in on it. The observatory coordinator, or the Joes at the star party have never heard of the "Cynthia" star. What do you tell these people? That they've been scammed? That they bought a piece of cardboard? That something they thought would be recognized the world over, and possibly for thousands of years to come, will never be heard of by anyone outside some dusty room in offices of the "International Star Registry"?

    It's not all in good fun when the only people having fun are those who collect the money.

  7. #127
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    Way of the World sadly. More we complain the
    more we get labled killjoys. I used to like
    looking at the horoscopes in the papers years
    ago thinking they earned some poor soul a crust
    to eat. Now they have premium phone lines and
    I know they coin it. Find some lighthearted
    ways to counter it all!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteshimmon View Post
    Way of the World sadly. More we complain the
    more we get labled killjoys. I used to like
    looking at the horoscopes in the papers years
    ago thinking they earned some poor soul a crust
    to eat. Now they have premium phone lines and
    I know they coin it. Find some lighthearted
    ways to counter it all!
    Without going too far off topic (I hope) it is clearly all very cynical on the part of the newspapers. So-called "serious newspapers" publish horoscopes to boost sales but clearly do not give them any credence. If they did think that there was something to them, then why do they never give an astrological analysis of, say, the North Korean nuclear issue? Ho-hum...

  9. #129
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    things get real interesting when we start to talk about pluto and whether it's a planet or not. UT, BA, and Space.com all have some good pages on this. I love to follow the discussion.

  10. #130
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    Media is corrupting our world, one step at a time...

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    From www.mystar.se

    Disclaimer

    Global Star Registry makes no legal claim to officially assigning names to stars in the Universe. Only the International Astronomical Union has the authority to assign names to stars and they only recognize stars by assigning them numbers. Global Star Registry does however, recognizes and acknowledges the names it assigns to stars. The name will be filed in a Registry Vault and recorded in a book, which is then registered in the copyright office of the United States of America.

    By purchasing our Star kit you understand and accept that naming a star is only a novelty gift, and that no legal title is conferred or implied. We have no control over any other entity operating a similar service or the business of any scientific, governmental or other body. We cannot be held responsible or have any liability whatsoever if a star in our archives is referred to by another name or number or by any reference whatsoever in another register, catalogue, listing or other star reference in whatever form or size.
    A lot, in fact I would guess most, of the customers of these various registrys are probably unaware that what they are buying is a novelty certificate with no validity beyond the company that they bought it from. I'm sure that people naming stars after dead loved ones don't believe that they are purchasing a novelty.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Here is the English version.

    One must dig a little to get to the diclaimer you've quoted. The principal pages imply ownership as is commonly understood.

    The home page is brief in information but does place emphasis on ownership.

    For just $85 USD you get a Star Kit from MYSTAR - Global Star Registry. The kit contains a signed certificate confirming the name and astronomical coordinates of your star. You also get a sky map showing where your star, which is marked, is located. The kit also contains a pendant engraved with the star's constellation and its exact coordinates! You can choose between getting the pendant as a necklace or a keyring.

    Immortalise your own name or someone else's among the stars! A brilliant, unique gift that can't fail to please!
    [bold mine, of course]

    Going to the next likely web page....

    Your Star Certificate:
    This signed and sealed Certificate contains the given name and astronomical coordinates of your star. The star name will be filed in a Registry Vault and recorded in a book, which will be registered in the copyright office of the United States of America.

    There is no hint that "your star" will be the same as someone else's from another registry. The disclaimer is buried in the section we normally call the "fine print".

    I personally don't have a problem with their program and this particular one looks rather impressive and can be effective as a charm. [In fact, I once thought we [BAUT] should do one to raise money for astronomy.] Our gripe is that it places unfair emphasis on ownership, no doubt improving sales. It is the disingenous sales approach that is polemic on all the registrys I've seen.
    We know time flies, we just can't see its wings.

  13. #133
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    Buy a Parallel Universe

    Authority for Universe Ownership allows you to purchase deeds to an entire parallel universe, customized to your specifications!

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Buy a Parallel Universe

    Authority for Universe Ownership allows you to purchase deeds to an entire parallel universe, customized to your specifications!
    Wow. I am amazed...

    (In a bad way)

  15. #135
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    I don't know, that seems to me to be a purely (and obviously) novelty gift. No "registering the LoC" crap, just a nice joke.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    consider it a learning experience for the alleged victims.
    No, it isn't. They don't usually learn about it. It's a con.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    they make a registry. and then another. and so on. they tell you everything in the ad... if you listen. are you trying to fix the planet? make it in your own image? you can read about that type of people in the news, history, etc. they are basically the ones that will cause all the havoc, death, and destruction as they try to get everyone to comply with their concept. consider it a learning experience for the alleged victims.
    Hmmm. Are you familiar with the term "hyperbole"?

  18. #138
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    Folks, I deleted the posts from "unregistered." Somehow he/she/it got around the software and posted w/o registering. Let's not encourage this, okay? Thanks.

    We now return you to your regular thread, already in progress.

    ETA: Sheesh, there were two of them!
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
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  19. #139
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    OK, I'll add to this now. Seems like the best thread to do it in, instead of starting a new one.

    My daughter's boyfriend bought her a "Shining Star" as a gift. This is a teddy bear with a certificate of sorts attached to it that allows the recipient to go online at the International Star Registry web site to "name" a star. I'm not going to launch into my typical tirade about this scam, but as a journal-published amateur astronomer and celestial cartographer with some real science under my belt, I am obviously not a proponent of this line of "business".

    At any rate, my daughter (who is 15) thought it was a cute idea, in spite of my rants against it, and went ahead and "registered" a star with a name of her choice. The "data" came back on the star she received. And I did a little checking.

    The coordinates provided for the star she had just "named" are:

    17 55 41.93 +52 28 46.54

    First off, I look at those coordinates and, right off the bat, I know I'm heading into The Bogus Zone. Sexagesimal celestial coordinates don't normally come in this form. The decimal precision is non-typical. Since Right Ascension is expressed in hours (24 hours through a full sweep of longitude) instead of the way Declination is expressed (in degrees, with 90 degrees from the celestial equator to the each of the poles), the decimal precision necessary to express an exact position at the same resolution is different for RA than in Dec. So generally, the coordinates for a star look like this:

    17 55 41.93 +52 28 46.5

    The precision in RA needs to be greater than in Dec. We all know that. So that raises a flag for me right there. These guys don't even know enough about what their schilling to get the data in the proper format.

    And of course, the next thing I do is run these coordinates through the VizieR service out of the CDS in Strasbourg. I use this service almost daily in my work. It's the best and fastest way to match a set of coordinates to an object in any of over 6000 published astronomical catalogs, including some very deep stellar astrometric catalogs like the Hubble Guide Star Catalog, the USNO catalogs taken from the POSS plates, the 2MASS and UCAC2 catalogs...all highly precise, and reaching deep into the faint magnutudes.

    So, anyway...guess what pops out at those coordinates? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Oh, there's this amazingly faint 20th magnitude star about 3.5 arc seconds away, but are they really handing out stars THAT faint? And anything greater than a couple of arcsecs is not an inconsequential error when talking stars. These coordinates are bogus. If they are indeed expressed in equinox J2000.0 reference, they're pointing to open space.

    Jeez, what a sham. What a joke. But yet they've managed to sucker over 1 million lemmings into handing over the bucks for it.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by skygeex View Post
    Jeez, what a sham. What a joke.
    Good tale, but it sure took the romance out of the teen crush.

    Hey, send the boy to me. I'll sell him some numbers that actually point to a star for -- special deal for you only -- half the price!
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

  21. #141
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    Could the IAU *officially* assign star names for a fee?

    We had a discussion on sci.astro about the possibility of raising funds for astronomy by having the IAU *officially* assign names to stars:


    Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.astro.amateur, sci.physics
    From: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com>
    Date: 5 Mar 2005 10:26:25 -0800
    Local: Sat, Mar 5 2005 2:26 pm
    Subject: Could the IAU *officially* assign star names for a fee?

    This thread discussed the companies that claim to name a star for a
    fee:

    From: "Brian Miller" <mille...@earthlink.net>
    Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:40 GMT
    Local: Tues, Apr 13 2004 10:26 am
    Subject: Naming a Star companies; NOT officially recognized
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6631bbb1cf7b8

    These companies and the names they assign have no official standing:

    http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html

    On this page the IAU mentions they use a numbering system for stars
    because it makes cataloging and finding them easier. But there are
    stars that do have names such as Barnard's star.
    If names *were* officially assigned to very many stars that really
    would not impact astronomers research. They could still use their
    numerical naming conventions in their research.
    So could the IAU say offer to officially assign the name of a star in
    perpetuity for say a $1000 fee? At least one of these star naming
    companies claims to have had 1 million customers. At $1,000 each that
    could amount to $1 billion. I'm thinking about this going strictly into
    astronomy: building new telescopes, funding new space missions etc.
    One problem might be suppose a couple of hundred years hence we visit
    these systems. You might want to assign the name of the star to an
    explorer who first visits it. Or who colonizes a planet in the system.
    A more current problem is that you would have cases where someone
    would want to name a star "Adolf Hitler". It would be easy to filter
    out these requests. But some would not be so easy for an international
    union. Would "Karl Marx" be acceptable? Would the "Josef Stalin"? There
    are many other such examples.
    Note also that world-wide this could conceivable be a yearly income on
    this level. For a billion dollars yearly going stricly into
    astronomical research I think many astronomers would accept the idea of
    their favorite stars being assigned individual names.


    Bob Clark

  22. #142
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    You seem to be up in arms about very little. They air out here in Hawaii also. Seems that if anyone expect it to be anything more than a novelty for their loved one, they are a bit misguided.

    If they have language that states that it is not recognized, and the naming is for novelty gift purposes, they are covered and the onus is on those that buy this silly "gift" thinking it is anything more.

    Me thinks you are up in arms because it offends you personally, that is not enough to cause a case against them.

    Personally, I haven't noticed Betelguese having changed to Fred lately. ;-)

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayvinton View Post
    You seem to be up in arms about very little. They air out here in Hawaii also. Seems that if anyone expect it to be anything more than a novelty for their loved one, they are a bit misguided.
    See my message in this very same old thread, from a year or two ago. Tell me how you would deal with someone who came to your observatory to see a star that they had purchased for a recently-dead loved one. (which was just one of the examples I listed that have actually happened to me, more than once).

    Quote Originally Posted by jayvinton View Post
    If they have language that states that it is not recognized, and the naming is for novelty gift purposes, they are covered and the onus is on those that buy this silly "gift" thinking it is anything more.
    That is sort of the point. They do NOT have that language. They go out of their way to imply that it is completely official and will be recognized as the real name.

    In fact, one of the companies was taken to court in one US state on that very issue. As I recall, the state won that case, but the company still does the same shyster stuff in other states. I can't speak to honesty in advertising laws in other countries.

  24. #144
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    Question Can you actually see the star???

    To save me a lot of reply reading (went through several pages), does anyone know if the star(s) "registered" can actually be seen? Are they currently officially named stars (visible with the naked eye) or stars that need optical aid to be detected? A very curious Mr Q

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Q View Post
    To save me a lot of reply reading (went through several pages), does anyone know if the star(s) "registered" can actually be seen? Are they currently officially named stars (visible with the naked eye) or stars that need optical aid to be detected? A very curious Mr Q
    They are not naked eye stars. They would have used those long ago.

    Supposedly they would be stars that are listed in calalogs and would have an official designation.

    Often, though, they are not real stars at all, and when an astronomer tries to help the poor sap who bought the star, they discover that there is nothing brighter than magnitude 14 at the given location.

    I suppose they just randonly select some coordinates.

  26. #146
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    I know that, on at least one occasion, someone got sold a splotch on a starmap.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  27. #147
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    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
    Isaac Asimov

    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
    Doctor Who

    Moderation will be in purple.
    Rules for Posting to This Board

  28. #148
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    Well I am sure that it is uncomfortable having to deal with someone looking for "their" star, but in reality, life goes on, and, "unfortunately, You got duped" comes to mind as an honest answer for them.

    There are people in the world that will buy anything and usually do. But I don't see it as a life altering thing for you or anybody. You and I and the other folks here are probably smart enough to know that it is bogus. You can't be the informational police for those that don't want to be policed.

    I have no quarrel with you, but like everything else on BAUT, sometimes common sense takes a back seat to the art of sheer argument. Continue to champion your cause on this, I for one am out.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayvinton View Post
    Well I am sure that it is uncomfortable having to deal with someone looking for "their" star, but in reality, life goes on, and, "unfortunately, You got duped" comes to mind as an honest answer for them.
    Well, if you wouldn't mind telling the person "you got duped" when they thought they had done something wonderful to remember a loved family member who had just died, then you are thicker skinned than I am.

    We aren't going to end this practice, but we can certainly report it to the authorities when the purveyors clearly break the law on truth in advertising.

  30. #150
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    and while your at it, buy some land on the moon too......

    http://www.lunarlandowner.com/

    They claim to actually have a legal right to sell land on the moon:
    http://www.lunarlandowner.com/what_is_this_about.htm

    Think this will actually hold water if we ever actually start to colonize the moon?

    As If.....

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