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Thread: Newest Enterprise

  1. #1
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    Newest Enterprise

    O.K. i just saw the latests enterprise on tape. I have to say, i love the Borg, but give me a break. That was a horrible episode.

    Spoilers......




















    They threw continuity right out the window. Not to mention just plain stupidity and science. So TNG has never heard of the Borg, yet obviously they have evidence of Borg technology, scans, and photgraphs of the Borg. They even have some of the borg nano's. So they just cover this up and never tell the captains of any starship about this?

    What in the cliffhanger of this season they encounter Q? Give me a break paramount. Think of more origonal episodes other than the Borg (and most likely a Q episode). Starfleet isnt supposed to encounter them untill TNG (altought Shatner says the machines in the motion picture were borg too).

    And somehow the 22nd centuy weapons can defeat more borg than 24th century? So a 24th century phaser can kill only one borg before they adapt, yet a 22nd century phaser can kill almost a dozen?

    Also i did note one continuity error. One of the big main characters says something about "not even a holographic bullet can kill them". I thought that they didn't have holodecks then.


    O.K. so somehow in only a few hours the borg can convert a entire cargo ship to almost 5 times its origonal speed, create transporters, and create weapon emitters. Huh? I know they are cool and all powerful, but that is impossible even with their super advanced nano's.

    And how did Dr. Phlox remove all of the borg implants? I Thought that Crusher barely removed them from captain Picard without killing him, how did phlox remove them on himself? (And don't get me going on why a spaceship only has one compitent doctor)

    Uhhhgggg.....

  2. #2
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    It seems that Enterprise has already thrown continuity out the window, and this is just pounding another nail in the coffin. Ironically, it's been shown, and the major consensus is that less-advanced weapons are more effective at dealing with Borg, and this is really just reaffirming that.

    Time to lower the odds again on the "last episode is a giant time-travel reset/retcon" theory.

  3. #3
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    Actually, this episode seems fairly consistent with what I've seen in the past. Let's see:

    1) The Borg. No, not the menacing TNG Borg that stood on the brink of capturing Earth, but the "all your base..." Borg that Voyager defeated on a weekly basis.

    2) The fine tradition of Starfleet security. They completely failed to contain aliens that they were assigned to contain. I wonder when they'll start wearing redshirts.

    3) Starfleet's memory hole. They seem to lose so many useful tidbits of information. Slingshot-effect time travel. Cloaking devices. And somehow, between the 22nd and 24th centuries, Starfleet completely forgets about a 3-km wide crashed Borg sphere found on Earth and a group of drones who nearly destroyed NX-01.


    But don't worry, they're still throwing in those one-liner references to the previous series, and soon they'll be back to shooting warmed-over scripts from previous series again.

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    So what do you guys think about my prediction?:

    Since they don't care about any continuity at all in Enterprise. In this seasons season finale, Q will play a major role.


    Oh! even better. Twisting wingnuts idea a bit, Q will show up at the last episode of the show and change the whole history of the series so it will follow in accordance to TOS and TNG.

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    Hmmm.. I have not seen the episode yet (damnit, I just realized that it was on again tonight. I missed it wednesday and tonight.. Guess I will have to wait for a rerun) but this is how I thought it might go:

    Something like a small Borg survey vessel (it has been shown that the Borg have small vessels that are specialized to such tasks as surveying) crashed in the ice and was frozen over; the proto-Borg go into a hibernation mode. Time passes, the ice thickens by a few thousand years (meaning that the Borg encountered wouldn't even be as advanced as those in the 22nd century). It is discovered and communication is lost with the base. By the time that they figure out what is going wrong a rebuilt ship has left Earth and the assimilated base behind. The Terran Federation ( What type of government is the Earth supposed to have at this time exactly? I can't recall right now) sends in some troops but things go bad. Realizing the threat that this poses to the planet they nuke the base out of existence. They command the Enterprise to destroy the escaping Borg vessel on sight but before that can happen some Borg transport over and begin causing mayhem, some story (fight for the ship) ensues. They win and then destroy the Borg ship. The only thing left behind is a few nanoprobes and a Borg arm or leg, the rest being incinerated for fear of it infecting something. Thus, no one knows who or what they were and there is very little evidence left. A mere footnote on the trek of the Enterprise Nx-01 (why no one but a history buff would have heard about it).

    I have some questions though. Was it really a sphere that they found? Did the Borg have personal shields? Did they break out the good ol'EM-33s again to fight the Borg with some kinetic weapon goodness? I was hoping that they might do something like that.. -Colt

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    Colt:

    Spoilers........














    It was a sphere. It is hinted as the sphere that was destroyed in First contact. The borg were 24th centure borg with personal shileds and everything. They assimilate the artic camp and lanch a reaserch ship they found there. They assimilate the ship and its crew and in the process upgrade the ship. The ship then assimilates another ships crew and it is intercepted by the Enterprise. The enterprise bring aboard two partially asimilated people who were left behind. Unknowing of the dangers they only post one stupid guard. The borg then get fully asimilated and esacpe. In the process they infect Dr. Phlox.

    The borg then fiddle with some systems before they are blown out of a airlock (but left unharmed. Sequil anyone?)

    So Enterprise then resumes its chase after the fleeing assimilated ship. After a big battle the power to the engines and weapons is cut by the borg. So Archer and some other main character (malcom i think) beam over to the borg ship (why the borg didn't cut power to the transporter i don't know). They destroy the borg on the borg ship with explosive charges and then decide to blast it out of the sky. And that is it. Phlox cures himself with radiation treatment and he comes out fine.

  7. #7
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    On a related note, in First Contact, the Borg sphere was visible with the naked eye. That's Good Astronomy.

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    I think this episode was in the fine tradition of Star Trek non-continuity established by the original series. How many times did Spock have to spontaneously re-invent some method of time travel to save the Enterprise or her crew? He just never seemed to remember what he did the last time they had to time travel, and always said something about time travel being "theoretically" possible. The only explanation is some sort of human (or Vulcan) mutation that seriously affects our long term memory.

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    I'm just waiting for the episode where Enterprise is taken over by Space Hippies!!!
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

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    They certainly left several doors wide open for sequels.
    Spoilers...






















    1. Phlox (sp?) may still have a lurking nanoprobe or three.
    2. The "spaced" Borg could be recovered.
    3. One of the security guys may have been injected by a Borg in hand-to-hand combat. It was a quick shot, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't.
    4. We don't know what may have happened to the remains of the arctic base.

    I agree with the continuity criticsm. Maybe there was a pandemic of computer viruses that wiped out all the records, everywhere?

    Still, I'm enjoying Enterprise. I'm going to have to stop reading these threads before all you nay-sayers ruin the whole thing for me...

    P.S. Colt, awfully good speculations. You're quite close to the mark.

  11. #11
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    Rumor has it that abandoning continuity is intentional. It has already been established that in the Star Trek universe you can change history by going back in time. Apparantly the borg traveling back in time in the movie "First Contact" created a divergent timeline; "Enterprise" is set on that timeline, and not the tile line that led to the rest of the Star Trek shows.

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    I agree with tinfoilhat. That is what I had assumed happened when I watched the episode.

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    Actually, TOS must have been a different timeline too. After all, by now we should have had the genetic wars that produced Khan Noonian Singh, and other such once-future, now-past historical events...

  14. #14
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    I think my now we have to accept that Star Trek occured in a universe far, far away. The Creators don't do themselves any credit by attempting to bypass that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie B.
    P.S. Colt, awfully good speculations. You're quite close to the mark.
    Thank you, from what g99 gives of the basic outline it seems that my version of it would have been better and tied up alot more loose ends than that show left open. Yes, my ego is fine, thanks for asking. :wink: -Colt

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    Make it an alternate universe (Not the DS9/TOS one). It would free them up and would be less painful then slowly chipping away at the continuity.

    If they are going to do it, then just do it.

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    How about it takes place on a alternate earth on another galaxy or another part of the milky way? It is already shown in the series that there is a altenate earth. So why not another one?

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    Continuity

    I take each episode as a seperate adventure. If you get too tied up with continuity then things become unwatchable.

    Look at Dr Who!

    In it's last few seasons they had 'fans' advising on continuity and appearances by old faves like Daleks and Cybermen were so swamped by continuity considerations they were terrible.

    Dr Who traveled all over time interfering with things so there was no need for any continuity, when they didn't worry about it they could concentrate on a good story.

    I know which one I prefer.
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    Re: Continuity

    Quote Originally Posted by captain swoop
    I take each episode as a seperate adventure. If you get too tied up with continuity then things become unwatchable.

    Look at Dr Who!

    In it's last few seasons they had 'fans' advising on continuity and appearances by old faves like Daleks and Cybermen were so swamped by continuity considerations they were terrible.

    Dr Who traveled all over time interfering with things so there was no need for any continuity, when they didn't worry about it they could concentrate on a good story.

    I know which one I prefer.
    In a good story Phillip Marlowe doesn't take the elevator down from his 20th floor office and grab a donut and climb back up the stairs to his third floor office bemoaning the fact that there is no elevator (and we don't have to concoct wierd explanations like he has two offices in the same building and the elevator to the lower floors isn't working while the elevator to the upper floors is, or maybe elevators only go down, not up, or some alien intelligence stole 17 floors of the building and altered his memory).

    It's very difficult to get TV shows right. I understand that, and i agree that i would rather watch good episodes that contradict earlier episodes than boring episodes that are self-consistent. On the other hand, i didn't force them to write a prequel series--i don't have much sympathy for how hard their job is. They either knew when they started how hard it would be and failed to achieve it, or they figured that their fan base wouldn't care how poor of a job they did.

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    The producers had said (in an interview pre-pilot) that it would be very nearly impossible to do a prequel while respecting TOS continuity in all ways.

    I agree with that stance. TOS operated on a continuity-by-conveniance basis, and frequently threw any sort of plausibility out the window.

    This last episode, IMO, was exciting, and worked through most of the continuity issues, although I feel the enterprise crew learned far too much about the borg, far too quickly and easily, even if we accept that lower technology tends to trump the usual borg adaptive mods.

    To my knowledge, the Borg were never actually identified by "name", even by Cochrane.

    As far as Picard's "reversal" operation, keep in mind he was a lot further along the assimilation process than Phlox was, Phlox's immune system was apparently somewhat resistant to the nanomachines, and Picard was actually allowed to retain a small degree of independance so as to act as a liason between the borg and the population of Earth.

    However: Phlox's experience was/is journal material, and Archer's log would have definitely been accessible to starfleet. Either definitely contradicts the whole first contact premise of that Q episode... Unless we accept the possibility that nobody thought to StarFloogle[tm] 200+ year old records on "assimilating cyborgs", at least not using the right keywords.

    Besides, even getting the right keywords, they would have gotten about 5,000,000+ hits for the various cyborg-hoax believing cranks, assorted appendage-lengthing spams on USSNET and the various starship message boards, and the various Make Drones Fast chain letters. (Start by assimilating five humanoids. Each of them assimilates another five, soon, you have enough drones to choke a Crystalline Entity.)

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    A glaring Bit of BA in this one was in the Time Speed distance setup at one point. Yes, I know that ST has always had a problem with this one but this time I nearly gagged. At one point, the Enterprise is 2 light years behind the borgbots who are traveling at warp 4.8. Archer orders an increase in speed to 4.9 to catch them.
    Ok, I am going to dive into the depths of the sea of Geek ops: here that using the TOS Model of WF (ie v=WF^3 x c) (The logarithmic system wasn't in place yet) its going to take a while to catch them.
    WF 4.8 ~ 111c WF 4.9 ~118c. So we have a closing speed of ~7c. 2ly @ 7c closure rate .29 Years or about 4 months. This is of course assuming that the borgbots dont improve their engines any more and neither ship suffers an engineering casualty.

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    Re: Continuity

    Quote Originally Posted by daver
    It's very difficult to get TV shows right. I understand that, and i agree that i would rather watch good episodes that contradict earlier episodes than boring episodes that are self-consistent. On the other hand, i didn't force them to write a prequel series--i don't have much sympathy for how hard their job is. They either knew when they started how hard it would be and failed to achieve it, or they figured that their fan base wouldn't care how poor of a job they did.
    Come to think of it SG-SG1 does a good job of looking after it's continuity
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    I just had a strange thought.
    Suppose Dr. Who were to land in a Trek episode; and they had to ask for the help of Q to prevent him from.........?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinemarten
    I just had a strange thought.
    Suppose Dr. Who were to land in a Trek episode; and they had to ask for the help of Q to prevent him from.........?
    Prevent Dr Who from what?

    He would only land where he was needed, that's how it works, he is steered through space and time by various forces to help out where needed.

    Either that or his adventures over the last 30 years have been one HELL of a coicidence! :-)
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    Re: Continuity

    Quote Originally Posted by captain swoop
    Come to think of it SG-SG1 does a good job of looking after it's continuity
    Yeah. It has an advantage, though--the Earth forces are essentially modern, so they have less to keep track of.

    There hasn't been much tv sf i've enjoyed over the last few years (but i haven't watched too much recently--i might have missed some good ones). I've liked B5, SG, and Earth 2. Most of these were relatively low tech.

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    I liked Earth 2 at the begining. But later on in its first season it just started to loose me. I can't place my finger on why, but it just did.

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    Yeah, I liked Earth2 also. I think what killed the series for me were the underground alien/molepeople. I never could figure out why exactly they were trying to get to their destination. With the supply ship lost they would have been able to just wait and say "Sorry, we lost the ship." -Colt

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    Earth 2 (not to be confused with the made-for-TV movie Earth II from the 1970s) bugged me in one very important way:

    Here they are, crash-landed on a totally alien planet with its own independently-evolved biosphere, and there are pine trees growing on the hills! Pine trees are a terrestrial species. For over 9/10 of the Earth's history, pine trees didn't even exist! And I swear I remember seeing grass on the ground in Earth 2 as well. The odds against pine trees and grass independendly evolving on another planet are, if you'll pardon the expression, astronomical.

    Star Trek had this problem too, particularly during the Next Generation era. But I'd already resigned myself to the impossibilities of Star Trek by the time Earth 2 first premiered. If a new TV SF series was going to capture my attention, it would have to avoid Trek's mistakes, and Earth 2 failed in that.

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    There were definite problems with Earth 2. The terrestrial life forms (including that hawk you always heard whenever they showed a mountain forest), the stupid solar panels on the vehicles, the anti-technology feel of the show. At the time the competition was some trek or another and the Roy Scheider submarine show, so perhaps it just looked good by comparison.

    Regardless, i went out of my way to watch the show. It had a much different feel to it than other science fiction shows i've seen; i was disappointed when it was cancelled and the stupid sinking boat show was renewed.

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    Speaking of SeaQuest DSV: I liked the show alot untill they changed the cast and name. One they changed the cast and name it went down the toilet very, very fast.

    The show did have promist at first.

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