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Thread: Moving Hubble near ISS for frequent maintenance?

  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    assuming a possible "extra-life" of three years, we have:
    no repair: expected Hubble life to 2010 + extra life = 2013 end of work
    after last repair in 2008: expected Hubble life to 2013 + extra life = 2016
    the difference of life between "repair" and "non repair" it is "3 years", NOT "5 years" (since the last repair mission will happen in 2008 and NOT at the end of its past[2002]repair life-cycle in 2010)
    frankly, give (only) three extra-years of life to a "soon to die" and (after 2010) outdated telescope, (absolutely) doesn't worth the money, time and risks...
    With no servicing mission, Hubble will probably die in 2009 or 2010 from battery or gyro failure. At that point it will tumble and no servicing will be possible.

    With the 2008 shuttle servicing mission, Hubble will definitely last until 2013, and probably much longer. The most failure-prone elements (gyros and batteries) will be totally replaced, which was not done on the previous mission. The limiting factor would then probably be orbital decay, which is governed by solar activity and amount of reboost given by the servicing mission. It could easily last until 2015 or even 2020.

    The difference in operating life between the "repair" and "no repair" options is probably at least 10 years. We know this because given no repair, it will last about 9-10 years from the prior 1999 servicing mission. The much more robust servicing mission in 2008 should allow more life extension than the prior servicing mission. NASA's conservative numbers state 2013, but this is similar to the Mars rovers having a stated 90 day mission life.

    By the time Hubble requires yet another servicing mission (2015-2020), ISS possibly may not exist. NASA only plans on operating ISS until roughly that time frame.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
    Orion isn't being designed with an RMS.
    everything needed to repair/upgrade the Hubble, will be sent with the Orion/Soyuz Hubble-repair-toolbox and, after the last (near or away from ISS) Shuttle repair mission, there is plenty of time to design, build and launch that "toolbox"
    .

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    The technical and political challenges...
    I agree it's a (not easy to win) political challenge... but, here, I only want to explain WHY it's NOT a "too complex" TECHNICAL challenge
    .

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    everything needed to repair/upgrade the Hubble, will be sent with the Orion/Soyuz Hubble-repair-toolbox and, after the last (near or away from ISS) Shuttle repair mission, there is plenty of time to design, build and launch that "toolbox"
    So now we have to have an Orion and a Soyuz in order to pull this off? You also want to spend money on building a one-off "Hubble repair toolbox" that contains an RMS and a work platform. You also need a separate launch to get this "toolbox" into orbit. How much is this going to cost?

    So with this new "plan" we need to launch the following:
    1. An Orion
    2. A Soyuz - Although you haven't described its role in this "plan".
    3. A Hubble Toolbox


    This "plan" is rapidly evolving into a complex and costly venture.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    assuming you're right... launch a repair mission able to extend three years only the life of a telescope anyhow condamned to die in few years, is, at least, USELESS and a waste of time and money!
    NASA's "three years" figure for the results of the Hubble servicing is along the lines of the "90 days" figure for the Mars rovers, i.e., the length of time that survival is virtually certain. As with the Mars rovers, it's not unreasonable to expect that the time will actually be much longer.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob B. View Post
    The theoretical resolution of HST at the Moon's distance is about 90 meters.
    maybe, the theoretical resolution is 90 m. while the (real observations) is 400 m. (however, both are too much to be useful for the lunar job)
    ...HST has only a 2.4-meter mirror and this cannot be changed...
    never suggested to change the mirror ...better and sharper images may come from better sensors/electronics/computers/image-processing/etc. ...advanced interpolations, compensation of mirror's distortions, new image-processing techniques like those used for crime investigations, etc. ...using mixed hardware/software, I believe a 10x increase (or more!) may be possible in the near future (10+ years) to put Hubble (again and for the next 20+ years) at the (absolute!) TOP of ALL telescopes ...without launch a new telescopes (...to be exact: "without find the $5B+ to build a new telescopes"...)
    .

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    ...have demonstrated no aptitude...
    personal attacks and insults are useless and have zero effect on me
    ...this idea will not work.
    you may like or hate it... but my idea CAN work (it only need funds and political decisions)
    .

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    personal attacks and insults...
    Nope...it's your approach to this subject which dictates my response. Also, observation of your single-minded determination that you can not be wrong, when you so obviously are.

    you may like or hate it... but my idea CAN work (it only need funds and political decisions)
    .
    Which is why I don't understand what you think continued posting will accomplish. If you really believe this to be that important, then why not share these ideas with the actual people who might make a difference??
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    insults
    .
    You have insulted many people here by ignoring the accurate, scientific, fact based contributions they have made as if they are nothing. THAT is insulting. THAT is frankly, outragous considering how often you are demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of ANY of the spheres of knowledge required in this 'debate'.

    Yes - Hubble 'could' be moved to the ISS. But it would be idiotic to do, and impossible the way you describe.

    Doug

  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by joema View Post
    ...It could easily last until 2015 or even 2020...
    assuming your (very optimistic) prediction as true... have a working Hubble until 2020 but WITHOUT 2020's technologies' upgrade and surpassed by earth's telescopes is a NONSENSE so, the last reapir mission is USELESS ...that if it survive until 2020 ...WORST if it last in 2013...!
    DON'T REPAIR IT (saving time and money) MAKE SENSE
    MOVE IT near the ISS (before or after repair it) to UPGRADE and use it 20+ years, MAKE SENSE
    LOSE TIME, SPEND MONEY and TAKE RISKS to have a (soon surpassed and, 3-5 years later, DEAD) telescopes (substantially) "AS IS" doesn't make ANY SENSE (at least, in my opinion)
    ...ISS possibly may not exist. NASA only plans on operating ISS until roughly...
    I remember you that ISS is an "INTERNATIONAL" Space Station with a dozen of partners, so, if NASA will withdraw from it, ISS will still live 20+ years...
    .

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
    ...an Orion and a Soyuz...
    Orion OR Soyuz ...however, I think that Soyuz is better for that job since it costs a (small) fraction of Orion and already has an airlock (its Orbital Module) ...of course (both) Orion and Soyuz can be used for joined missions (e.g. an ISS crew rotation + Hubble repair with the same vehicle/launch) saving very much money
    ...need a separate launch to get this "toolbox" into orbit...
    all Shuttles will be retired in 2010, but, assuming they will live 20 more years and still used to repair Hubble (with an SM5, SM6, etc.) ...each servicing/upgrade mission may cost $1-2B... send a "toolbox" and repair it with a capsule have a "price" (of course) but it will be very cheap compared with a Shuttle repair mission! ...clearly, repair and upgrade Hubble will have a cost, but you can't do that COMPLETELY FREE...!
    .

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    NASA's "three years" figure for the results of the Hubble servicing is along the lines of the "90 days" figure for the Mars rovers, i.e., the length of time that survival is virtually certain. As with the Mars rovers, it's not unreasonable to expect that the time will actually be much longer.
    but we need to talk around a "finite" figure... it can survive "only two years from now" (to say that "we can't move it in time") and "ten years after the last repair mission" (to say that "it not even needs to be moved AFTER repaired"...)
    .
    Last edited by gaetanomarano; 2007-Jan-14 at 10:32 PM. Reason: grammar

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    ...determination that you can not be wrong...
    no, I just support my idea posting my opinions about its various aspect (moving, upgrade, costs, etc.)
    when you so obviously are.[wrong]
    THIS is ONLY your (wrong) opinion
    ...why not share these ideas with the actual people who might make a difference...
    I doubt they'll take attention to me... I can only write articles on my website and posts on space forums
    .

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by djellison View Post
    ...insulted many people...
    support my opinions NEVER can be an "insult" ...your "idiotic" (against me and my proposal) actually IS an INSULT
    ...Hubble 'could' be moved to the ISS...
    I agree
    .

  15. #555
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    This thread has ceased to serve any useful purpose. Closed.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    This thread has ceased to serve any useful purpose. Closed.
    please don't close the thread, I've other interesting things to post about this argument (graph, drawings, suggestions, etc.)

  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaetanomarano View Post
    "not good" doesn't mean "nothing"
    .
    Then be ready to acknowledge when someone who's understanding exceeds your own shoots your flawed ideas down.

  18. #558
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    .

    this thread is open or closed?

    .

  19. #559
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    In the midst of the various admin things I needed to do to handle the situation according to our standards, I neglected to close the thread. Now, it is closed.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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