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Thread: The 787 Countdown Thread

  1. #1
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    The 787 Countdown Thread

    By my estimate, 37 manufacturing days until rollout of the 787 on 7/8/07. That's the 8th of July for you Europeans, not the 7th of August!

    The wings arrived yesterday. http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/...s_wings001.cfm

    I saw the transporter, still with one wing on it, for the first time. As an old heavy machinery designer, I was more interested in the vehicle than the cargo. It's pretty impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    It sounds like that writer wants to be a novelist. It was interesting with all the talk of the different countries and companies involved. But; there were also some things said that just needed explaination. Most noteably:
    with the two 98-foot-long wings standing upright inside its body - leaving just 6 inches between the ceiling of the 747 and the top edge of the wings
    Yes; I know exactly what's being said, but combining 98-foot-long and standing upright in the same sentence just doesn't seem right. How tall is it standing upright?
    The wings delivered Tuesday still have to be painted, which partially explains why they look like aluminum.
    What's the other part? I always picture a composite to be black.


    By the way, if you want to follow the link in the article, there is an imbedded space before the word "boeing" in the link that shouldn't be there.

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    Maybe that should have been in the "Bad Reporting" thread!

    I saw no black composite on the parts. It's at least been primed or coated with something.
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    A different division of my (parent) company has completed delivery of its subassemblies for the first 787 (electronics).

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    Lessee - to my way if thinking, those wings aren't standing upright, they're on edge. Though it would be considerate of the <ahem> journalist to mention just how high the ceiling is inside the "Dreamlifter". SInce it's a modified aircraft, you can't use standard specs. From the image, I would guess at about 28 feet.

    Calling 'carbon fiber composite" a 'sophisticated plastic' is stretching things a bit. (And composite isn't always black)

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    The center fuselage, including the center wing box, arrived early this morning. That's the last major section, though not, as at least one of the news sources put it, "the last piece"!
    It'll be interesting to see this all come together.
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    Well, carbon fiber is black, so if they are aluminum-like, they've already been coated with something (or they're not CF, which isn't the case). It certainly is interesting though - I can't wait to see some 787's here at DIA in the future.

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    oh lordy - I didn't even think about that (I'm kinda in the landing path - some times the heavies come in a little lower than I like)

    I wasn't very clear, was I.. CF is indeed black, but on occasion I've worked with pre-cut sheets of it that were white.. it wasn't a paint. Maybe a bonding agent?

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    Gelcoat?

    Any carbon fiber composite with a polyester, epoxy, or any other common resin (epoxy is the most common for aerospace applications) will be black, as the carbon fiber itself is black and the epoxy is clear, perhaps slightly reddish or yellowish (but not enough to tint the whole composite). Quite simply, if it is white, it is paint, gelcoat, or a pigment in the epoxy itself. Or it's not CF...

    Texalium perhaps?

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    Could be they're using some fancy-schmancy high-tech resin material that has a silvery sheen. Embedded metal particles, maybe?

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    Unlikely. Embedded metal particles wouldn't really strengthen it, they'd make it more difficult to fully impregnate the component with resin, and it would reduce the fiber:resin ratio. My best bet is a coating, possibly a thin gelcoat or something similar (UV protective coating maybe? Some epoxies degrade in the sun...).

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    I was over there again this afternoon and could actually see a couple of black areas. I think the externals are primed when they come in. I think there may actually be some metal mesh in the outer skin for electrical interference purposes but that's WAY out of my field of knowledge!
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    Not sure why there would need to be - carbon is a conductor, so the carbon fiber itself is as effective as a metal mesh at blocking quite a bit of RF..

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    Quote Originally Posted by LurchGS View Post
    the heavies
    I think that is airplane jargon, because I've seen it on transcripts. Does it just mean a big airplane or does it have some other specific meaning?
    As above, so below

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    Sure they use a pure carbon fibre composite (so layers of just carbon fibres with bonding resin, and optionally some honeycomb pattern thickness filler in between, usually mde out of a metal)?, Don't they use a GLARE like material? Fiber metal laminate composites, i.e. layers of aluminium with layers of fiber reinforced resin. In case of glare that is glass fiber IIRC, but you could also use CF, I assume. These materials can look like metals from the outside, if the outer layer is metal, which usually is the case. Can look green/yellowish if already treated, like many airframes are.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think that is airplane jargon, because I've seen it on transcripts. Does it just mean a big airplane or does it have some other specific meaning?
    It means a big airplane, specifically one that leaves larger-than-usual wing vortices behind on landing or takeoff.

    That's important for the terminal traffic controllers to know, since smaller planes can be tossed about by said vortices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think that is airplane jargon, because I've seen it on transcripts. Does it just mean a big airplane or does it have some other specific meaning?
    In this context, "The Heavies" refers to three large Japanese companies, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, and Fuji Heavy Industries. (Fuji is the parent company of Subaru.) They have had a long relationship with Boeing, building the fuselage panels for the 767 and 777 and now the wings for the 787.

    Nicolas, Boeing is not using Glare, that's pretty much an Airbus thing. It's pure CFRP although there may be some honeycomb in there as well. I'm REALLY not a composite guy! I think the colors I'm seeing are really just paint. You can see black carbon in some areas.

    33 days now, I think. (Those are normal manufacturing days. There may be a weekend shift or two worked as well. )
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    Yeah - I'm kind of a composite nut, so that's why I'm curious about it

    Honeycomb is great stuff - I have a 30cm by 30cm panel of 1/8" thick carbon over nomex honeycomb, and it only weighs about 80 grams. I can't bend it with all my strength though...

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    32 days left, counting today as complete.

    I got a little closer. The body is interesting in that there are no fasteners visible except where sections join and some around the windows. That's to be expected, of course, since they are winding the tubes but it still looks odd compared to what I'm used to.

    I've seen some pictures of the inside. Definitely a lot of black CFRP.
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    The Big Twin's little brother... that will stab his elder brother in the back for the position of crown prince in a few years like the little one in Curse of the Golden Flower.

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    beautiful looking aircraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 geek View Post
    The Big Twin's little brother... that will stab his elder brother in the back for the position of crown prince in a few years like the little one in Curse of the Golden Flower.
    Kind of like the Next-Generation 737 killed off the 757 as larger and longer-range derivatves were developed.
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    Here's a press release:
    787
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    That smooth surface does look a bit weird

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    Time for a bump.

    20 days to go, counting today as complete.

    The "rollout" ceremony (which will probably be more of a curtain drop, with the airplane not actually moving) will be covered live on Boeing's website and on satellite TV on July 8. They've also rented Qwest field in Seattle for closed-circuit coverage on the big screen. Only employees actually on the program will attend in person.
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    14 to go now. It's begun to look like an airplane.

    Time must be looking very short to those responsible for having it ready for the "premier". I'm just as happy I'm not one of them, but I predict the event will occur on schedule and the airplane will look great.
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    One more bump at seven (working) days to go. The airplane has actually "rolled out" to the paint hangar, looking complete. Some pictures, taken from the highway outside the factory, were posted on airliners.net but the links I have go directly to the photos so I think it would be a violation of the board rules to post them. If I find a better link I'll add it.

    My first thought on seeing the photos was that it looks like a 767!
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    Here's a link to the local paper, with a photo gallery:
    Everett Herald
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    My first thought on seeing the photos was that it looks like a 767!
    Me too; all these planes are starting to look alike to me. It's just a matter of two engines or four.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Here's a link to the local paper, with a photo gallery:
    Everett Herald
    Call it a reverse Cinderella story.
    What the heck does that mean?

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    Of course, they'll give it the curly Boeing paint job which can, with all due respect for the nice planes Boeing makes, even turn a sewer pipe into a nifty looking aircraft. The people that designed that paint job are really good.

    But here, naked, it doesn't look all that special on the first pic of the article. Of course, this angle doesn't clearly show any possible originality in the shape of the vertical tail and wings, so I'll wait and see just how special or mundane the 787 looks when finished. The vertical tail does look sleek though even from this angle, even though it's not the shark first proposed by the marketing dreamers .

    Looking at other pics, the nose does look original from the side. I don't know whether I like it, but it is original . I love the funcional curly engine trailing edges. The CWB appears to have quite an exotic shape. The little curly wing tips are nice. From the front, it looks quite regular .

    I wonder if the larger windows will be someting noticeable from the outside.

    While it doesn't stun me the way an A380 does, I like the 787. I would really love to see the A380-900 if they ever build it, that plane must redefine huge.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

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