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Thread: Rants

  1. #1
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    Rants

    Are they appropriate to this science-oriented board? I'm in the mood to deliver one, but I don't think they should be welcome in BAUT -- not just the jocularly labeled rants we usually see here, with some emotion but still heavy on the rationale. I mean the real rant, full of emotional diatribe.

    Wikipedia: Rant

    A rant is a purely emotion driven speech or piece of writing that has been sparked by something so emotionally or intellectually jarring that one ignores any notion of making a well researched and calm argument. A rant directly attacks an idea, person or institution, often making few tangible claims and broad, possibly personal, attacks upon the target.
    Shall I proceed? Or save it for somewhere where rants are apppropriate? Please, I don't want to...
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    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

  2. #2
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    Whether they are or not- You are begging for another one.

    Considering that Two Mods mentioned in the other thread the tensions suddenly ignited- Do you think it was appropriate to start a new thread to increase your own personal agenda because you didn't like being singled out in the other one?

    You asked- and you were one of the minor offenders. Take it like a man. I always have to take it when other people tell me where I'm wrong.

  3. #3
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    Don't see why not, I do it all the time. It depends on the amount of aggression you put into it I think. Know the difference between a rant and flaming though. You'll probably get a smack if you flame.

  4. #4
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    01101001, if you feel a strong need to rant, my PM box is open to you as a safe, not-inappropriate place. Use language if you like. My PM inbox is currently lined with air cushions that happen to be fire-retardant (don't ask) and I just cleaned up some PMs from a few adult film celebrities I won't name that I wasn't planning on answering without a better offer on the table, so there's room.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  5. #5
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    I try very hard not to rant on the board in any seriousness. I simply don't think it's appropriate. Now, there are one or two people here who have received PMed rants from me, and there are one or two people here who have reciprocated. But a lengthy rant about emotionally-charged issues probably won't end well. About how Peter Jackson will handle The Hobbit? Sure. But I suggest leaving it there in open forum.
    _____________________________________________
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    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

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  6. #6
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    Given my strong feelings about Pluto's planethood, I may at any time, with or without provocation, start ranting against the IAU.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurele View Post
    Given my strong feelings about Pluto's planethood, I may at any time, with or without provocation, start ranting against the IAU.
    Not too long ago I saw a press release I won't name (because it was an advertisement for space related coins) that said, "Pluto has been decommisioned."

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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  8. #8
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    Per the topic, when I get really annoyed, I try to remember to walk away and do something else. If I still feel like posting, I wait a bit to cool down some. I don't always remember to do that, but it helps.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  9. #9
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    Well, I'm ticked off at the fact that it's clouding up right now and I won't be able to see anything tonight.
    Garble gabble! Frabble tabble! Flippy dippy...
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  10. #10
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    Whether or not you feel you need to step away and cool off...

    Why should you have to step back and cool off in the first place?

  11. #11
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    Why should you have to step back and cool off in the first place?
    If Fraunkensteen had done so, he might not have been (quite rightly) banned!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain K View Post
    If Fraunkensteen had done so, he might not have been (quite rightly) banned!
    What I mean is that something inspires a person to get to the point where they need to step back and cool off...

    Why is that ok?

    Why is a person at fault simply for being human and reacting to something - but that which they reacted to is not at fault, ignored or dismissed?


    I wholeheartedly agree that people should control themselves.

    The things I have personally ranted about are mostly (not always) something that that I have stepped back and cooled off several times about- but finally got to a snapping point.

  13. #13
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    Why is a person at fault simply for being human and reacting to something - but that which they reacted to is not at fault, ignored or dismissed?
    For the same reason that a beautiful woman, walking down the street, minding her own business is not at fault is a man jumps out and rapes her!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain K View Post
    For the same reason that a beautiful woman, walking down the street, minding her own business is not at fault is a man jumps out and rapes her!
    No, no no- you are totally comparing apples to oranges.

    Let me extend that for you- Beautiful women gets attacked by a man trying to rape her- so she clubs him on the head.

    Now if she is treated as a violent criminal for clubbing him- and the fact that he jumped out at her is ignored- THEN it's apples to apples with my question.

  15. #15
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    No, no no- you are totally comparing apples to oranges.

    Let me extend that for you- Beautiful women gets attacked by a man trying to rape her- so she clubs him on the head.

    Now if she is treated as a violent criminal for clubbing him- and the fact that he jumped out at her is ignored- THEN it's apples to apples with my question.
    Isn't that self defense?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dknight View Post
    Isn't that self defense?
    No. She should have stepped back and cooled off before getting violent

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Per the topic, when I get really annoyed, I try to remember to walk away and do something else. If I still feel like posting, I wait a bit to cool down some. I don't always remember to do that, but it helps.
    Same goes with me. Because if I give in to my annoyance right away, my brains will be clouded with emotions and will not be able to think straight .
    Last edited by Whirlpool; 2007-Dec-21 at 12:55 AM. Reason: added: will

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    What I mean is that something inspires a person to get to the point where they need to step back and cool off...

    Why is that ok?

    Why is a person at fault simply for being human and reacting to something - but that which they reacted to is not at fault, ignored or dismissed?
    It's pretty clear that flame wars are a no-no on this board. If there is a post that you think breaks board rules, you should report it. If it doesn't, it's a good idea to step back and think about it before reacting emotionally.

    Now, are you asking for more or tighter board rules? If so, you might want to look at some of your own posts in other threads.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    It's pretty clear that flame wars are a no-no on this board. If there is a post that you think breaks board rules, you should report it. If it doesn't, it's a good idea to step back and think about it before reacting emotionally.

    Now, are you asking for more or tighter board rules? If so, you might want to look at some of your own posts in other threads.
    There is nothing in my post that implies more or tighter rules.

    What my post implied is that if someone actually gets to the point of a rant- maybe the reason that got them to that point should be addressed as well- not just scapegoating the ranter and ignoring the rest.

    As far as flame wars go- it takes more than one participant to make one.

    I absolutely agree in taking a moment to cool off- or not going off all angry or thinking emotionally instead of taking a moment to be more rational.

    But the issue that inspired them, whether they cool off or not- remains, like it or not.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There is nothing in my post that implies more or tighter rules.

    What my post implied is that if someone actually gets to the point of a rant- maybe the reason that got them to that point should be addressed as well- not just scapegoating the ranter and ignoring the rest.
    I can think of various cases where posters started emotionally charged arguments that inspired "rants" in response, and Mods did not ignore the poster that started the argument. So, if there are cases where the "point" is not, in your opinion, being addressed, that would certainly seem to imply that there would need to be more or tighter rules.

    As far as flame wars go- it takes more than one participant to make one.
    Right, which is why we are asked to report an offending post, rather than get into a flame war.

    I absolutely agree in taking a moment to cool off- or not going off all angry or thinking emotionally instead of taking a moment to be more rational.

    But the issue that inspired them, whether they cool off or not- remains, like it or not.
    The issue remains in the mind of the "ranter," certainly. Whether others agree it is an issue is another question.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    I can think of various cases where posters started emotionally charged arguments that inspired "rants" in response, and Mods did not ignore the poster that started the argument. So, if there are cases where the "point" is not, in your opinion, being addressed, that would certainly seem to imply that there would need to be more or tighter rules.
    Why is point in quotation marks?
    Not at all. It requires the readers to think about the point. Address it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Right, which is why we are asked to report an offending post, rather than get into a flame war.
    How many posts can you report all at one time? What if it isn't so much a post, as an underlying attitude- that consistantly appears over time- but is not necessarily breaking rules? (perhaps the 'be nice' rule but even then it's debatable...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    The issue remains in the mind of the "ranter," certainly. Whether others agree it is an issue is another question.
    Why is ranter in quotation marks?

    The issue remains. Whether purely in the mind of the ranter or not. Whether you agree that it is an issue- or to the nature of the issue, is ignoring it and slamming the ranter the solution? Or is addressing the issue the solution?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Why is point in quotation marks?
    Quoting you, and emphasizing that there may or not be a valid point to a rant.

    Not at all. It requires the readers to think about the point. Address it.
    First, that's assuming that readers agree that there is a valid point. Second, readers aren't required to do what one wants.

    The issue remains. Whether purely in the mind of the ranter or not.
    Whether you agree that it is an issue- or to the nature of the issue, is ignoring it and slamming the ranter the solution? Or is addressing the issue the solution?
    If the issue only exists in the mind of the ranter, it's rather difficult to address. Ignoring a mythical issue is a pretty good response. Attempting to guide the ranter to a rational discussion is another response. Unfortunately, that generally doesn't work.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Quoting you, and emphasizing that there may or not be a valid point to a rant.
    This doesn't answer why ranter was also in them...
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    First, that's assuming that readers agree that there is a valid point.
    Discussion of the point does not require anyone to agree that it exists. In discussing it they may help the ranter to see that it's a figment of his imagination.

    We all know how and why this thread was started...
    Using that as an example- we already know that it is not primarily in the mind of myself (that ranter) but in many minds.

    Just because you don't agree it is an issue- doesn't matter. Quite a few people do.

    So it is irrelevent. If you think it is or is not an imaginary issue- not addressing it and just attacking the ranter seems pointless to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Second, readers aren't required to do what one wants.
    Agreed!

    But in discussing behavior and options- people can learn the best approach to things too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    If the issue only exists in the mind of the ranter, it's rather difficult to address.
    Say you personally think it's a figment of the ranters imagination- that doesn't mean that it actually is.
    If it is so simple as self deception or denial- then you are just as capable of it as the ranter.
    Addressing the issue isn't difficult. Gillianren addressed it in the other thread quite well. Kudos to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Ignoring a mythical issue is a pretty good response.
    Assuming that it is mythical? And if you are going to ignore the issue- and still post- what does that leave you posting? Attacks against the ranter? And this is a good response?
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Attempting to guide the ranter to a rational discussion is another response. Unfortunately, that generally doesn't work.
    Perhaps- but you don't know 'til you try. Accusing, ridiculing, or displaying the very attitude that initated the rant in the first place seems a poor response to use just because you say people might be disinclined to use the good one because they think it generally does not work.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    How many posts can you report all at one time? What if it isn't so much a post, as an underlying attitude- that consistantly appears over time- but is not necessarily breaking rules? (perhaps the 'be nice' rule but even then it's debatable...)
    PM a mod; it's what I've done a few times. In a very, very minor example, there was someone who was consistently referring to me as "Gil," which I don't care for, after I'd told him repeatedly not to. Now, that's not a big deal, and I know it's not a big deal, but it bothered me when he just kept doing it. So I PMed a mod about it. The mod agreed that it wasn't actually a rules violation except in the very marginal sense of violating "be nice," as I certainly have a right to tell people not to call me something and have that respected. The mod handled it by PM.

    Yeah. People here get to me sometimes. More than you will ever know, in fact, because if they're getting to me that bad, it's a really, really bad idea for me to respond. There are three people here who are currently on my ignore list, and while one probably suspects, the other two probably don't. The two who don't have never provoked me to anger here. Now, they never will.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  25. #25
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    Rants are counterproductive.

    Make your point, but don't stoop to emotional 'arguments', they do not convince people.
    It just puts them off.

    Honey and vinegar.

    (If I want to rant I go elsewhere.)

  26. #26
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    I think that a rant CAN be a well thought out post(or bit of speech) and doesn't necessarily have to be illogical and in fact emotion can sometimes drive someone to be exquisitely perceptive and eloquent.

  27. #27
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    [rant] -mood=”somber” I agree, Frog march. One cannot deny the fact people are emotional beings. As Spoc would say, 'that is illogical.' We aren't Vulcan; we are human.

    The sense I get from the definition of 105's OP is a purely emotionally based argument devoid of reason. The natural expression of reasoned emotion is healthy. A very good case can be made against those that seem to manage their emotions to the degree nothing bothers them. Does nothing really bother them? Can they turn on and off that emotional side of their humanity? [humor] -type='sarcastic rhetoric” Are they human? [/humor]

    My point is that reasoned emotional expression is a natural human condition and a climate where that expression is denied produces a non-human and dangerous being. I think Spoc would agree that is logical. [/rant]

  28. #28
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    Yeah. People here get to me sometimes. More than you will ever know, in fact, because if they're getting to me that bad, it's a really, really bad idea for me to respond. There are three people here who are currently on my ignore list, and while one probably suspects, the other two probably don't. The two who don't have never provoked me to anger here. Now, they never will.
    Am I one of the people? I'm sorry people have made you angry.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

  29. #29
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    No Ranting Needed

    No need to rant yourself. I set a whole bunch of usually pretty good posters off one time just by saying "You're wrong, you don't understand the basic concepts, here's the references." This unloosed a torrent of rants. Apparently the more posters that have bought into an incorrect idea, the more difficult it is to correct it.

    As a counter example to ranting, look at Steven Hawking. He has no hesitation in saying "Well, I was wrong on that one." And Hawking has his share of critics that rant, but he's a good sport about it. Essentially, if you're right, no need to rant. If you're wrong, admit it and be done with it. Over the long term, you win.
    Last edited by John Mendenhall; 2007-Dec-21 at 09:35 PM. Reason: typo

  30. #30
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    How ironic that we are ranting about ranting.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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