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Thread: The Kessel Run

  1. #31
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    Re: quick would seem to be the idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by ldxar1
    Since the point is that the Falcon can evade imperial ships and the boasting also contained claims such as "I've outrun imperial starships", the point is that the Falcon is fast AND manoeuvrable.

    I don't think it's ever been established why the asteroid field on the far side of the Maw is there. It says in the Hutt Gambit - where the Kessel run is outlined - that the asteroid field, known as the Pit, is a large and sparse field of asteroids "encased inside the wispy arm of a nebula... [T]here was always the chance that when a pilot zigged to avoid one asteroid, he'd zag right into another' (90).

    In Rebel Dawn it's suggested that Han flew faster through the Maw than he should have done as well - presumably again, shaving closer to the black holes than would be usual, thus also cutting the distance (p. 362-3).
    On one occasion he was "sheering so close that the engines strained in protest" (363).

    My theory regarding the relationship between speed and distance is confirmed in the book:
    "Han's eyes narrowed. 'Hey, this is weird', he said. 'It says we actually shortened the *distance* we travelled, not just the time. Less than twelve parsecs!'" (Rebel Dawn p. 370)

    Although it's apparently not the Pit but the Maw which is the problem: the cost in distance, and thus in fuel and time, increases the further one loops around the Maw to avoid the black holes (The Hutt Gambit p. 91).

    The shorter the distance, the closer the ship has shaved black holes and asteroids. Thus, the boast is about the speed AND manoeuvrability of the Falcon - although Chewbacca apparently suspects that the boast is based on faulty measuring equipment on the Falcon, a suspicion Obi-Wan would probably have picked up through the Force.
    Or, more likely, Obi-Wan knows his Units.

    Han, and unprovable but likely, George Lucas himself, Simply Messed up.

    Later writers have, if anything, made it worse, by playing CYA!

  2. #32
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    Good evening everybody. The Doctor is in.


    So, how is it a boast of speed when it's a distance that's being used as the boast?

    If the asteroid field is sparse, why is there a danger of zipping and zagging into them?

    Speed is not required to avoid the black holes. One has to assume that the ship isn't bound to them to begin with, so it should be able to slingshot around the holes without any problems. You should be able to get as close to the event horizon as your hull strength, or assuming the ship isn't somehow capable of counteracting the gravity inside the ship for pilot comfort your body, can handle.

    And just how dense is this black hole field? How much farther do most pilots usually travel? 1 parsec is 3.26 light years. Shaving even a single parsec off of travel time would mean people are avoiding these objects by lightyears, when realistically anyone should be able to get within a few AUs of each body without feeling any adverse effects.

    I also see no reason for any engines to be straining in protest. Follow the proper course, and the engines wouldn't need to be on at all. That statement seems to be making an analogy between a black hole and a whirlpool or tornado or something. That in and of itself is bad astronomy -- black holes don't suck.

  3. #33
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    I would like to postulate a solution to the "Kessel Run" error that fits within the context of the original film and does not require any other book or film to corroborate.

    The premise is this:

    Since the ships that travel FTL are said to be traveling in Hyperspace, I submit that "hyperspace" is the SW equivalent of "Wormhole" and that all wormholes are curved.

    Imagine then that a ship that goes FTL is actually generating its own wormhole whose curvature is a function of the speed of the object passing through it (a large multiple of c). Therefore Han's claim of performing the run in less than 12 parsecs is actually a measurement of speed. It refers to the length of the wormhole generated. A slower ship might take 13 parsecs or more to travel the "run". A faster ship, if there was one, might do it in 11 parsecs.

    This would also explain why they never have battles in hyperspace.

    Remember, Space is curved. Why shouldn't hyperspace be curved as well?

  4. #34
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    I cant remember which book i read this in but i definently heard it somewhere.

    First of all a little info on how hyperspace jumps are made. Ships can only travel along very specific hyperspace routes in order to avoid mass field objects (stars, black holes, ect.) which will cause a ship to revert to real space and most likely destroy it in the process. However, ships with faster hyperdrives can cut closer routes through these mass fields because of their greater speeds.

    Now the Kessel Run is made, as stated previously, buy piloting along the maw. The issue of a parsec being a measure of distance is explained by the fact that only a ship with an incredibly fast hyperdrive (The Millenium Falcon) can cut such a short route so close to the maw, which being four black holes is a huge mass field, without being destroyed. I dont know of any other distances for the kessel run but apparently 12 parsecs is very short

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    So you're telling me that smugglers hold carefully planned contests that happen at a particular time and a particular place and involve the actual transportation of illegal goods? How realistic is this? How long do you think it would take the authorities to figure this out? Why would they bother?

    It's about as believable as trying to convince me that drug runners have a contest to see how fast they can get cocaine from Colombia to Florida, with the restriction that you have to use the exact same starting point, route, and ending point each time, plus you have to announce your attempt to independent parties so it can be properly timed.

    It's not going to happen: these guys are businessmen, not recreationists. They're not going to waste time competing for anything other than their customers' money, and they're not going to risk their livelihood in such a pointless and risky way.
    Of course it is realistic - clients may want to use the "best smuggler" in the galaxy. This race is something that allows a smuggler to charge more for his services, in a similar way to the recruitment methods used in the new Fast & Furious film.

    George Lucas also said the following in the DVD extras: -
    "in the Star Wars universe, traveling through hyperspace requires careful navigation to avoid stars, planets, asteroids, and other obstacles, and that since no long-distance journey can be made in a straight line, the "fastest" ship is the one that can plot the "most direct course", thereby traveling the least distance."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletfoss View Post
    Of course it is realistic - clients may want to use the "best smuggler" in the galaxy. This race is something that allows a smuggler to charge more for his services, in a similar way to the recruitment methods used in the new Fast & Furious film.

    George Lucas also said the following in the DVD extras: -
    "in the Star Wars universe, traveling through hyperspace requires careful navigation to avoid stars, planets, asteroids, and other obstacles, and that since no long-distance journey can be made in a straight line, the "fastest" ship is the one that can plot the "most direct course", thereby traveling the least distance."
    Wow...I see George Lucas is still trying to correct his mistakes years after the fact. Why is it so hard for the man simply to admit he didn't know what a parsec was?

    The vast majority of his audience didn't know what a par can was, either.

  7. #37
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    Han Solo was of course very well aware that it's a good idea, when dealing with spacetime, to measure space and time in the same units, with the speed of light as the conversion factor.
    He was saying that the Millennium Falcon had made the Kessel run in less than 40 years. (It was a long journey.)

    Grant Hutchison

  8. #38
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    It is my personal policy that a) Lucas made an elementary astrophysics mistake in scripting that line of dialog the way he did; and b) any excuse--however specious--that redeems that line of dialogue and permits it to be interpreted--however tenuously--as a legitimate and impressive boast, is infinitely superior to the position that line of dialogue is irrevocably wrong as delivered in the movie.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stutefish View Post
    It is my personal policy that a) Lucas made an elementary astrophysics mistake in scripting that line of dialog the way he did; and b) any excuse--however specious--that redeems that line of dialogue and permits it to be interpreted--however tenuously--as a legitimate and impressive boast, is infinitely superior to the position that line of dialogue is irrevocably wrong as delivered in the movie.
    I am always staggered by the lengths people will go to to excuse Star Wars.

  10. #40
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    Maybe everybody in that time and place says "parsecs" when they really mean "parsecs per standard day" or something like that. (That's assuming that they'd be speaking English so far away and long ago.) If a cop tells me that I was going sixteen miles over the speed limit, I'm not going to say "You're using a unit of distance as if it were a unit of time . . . you dummy!"

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    Maybe everybody in that time and place says "parsecs" when they really mean "parsecs per standard day" or something like that. (That's assuming that they'd be speaking English so far away and long ago.) If a cop tells me that I was going sixteen miles over the speed limit, I'm not going to say "You're using a unit of distance as if it were a unit of time . . . you dummy!"
    In that case he surely wouldn't be bragging that he made the run "in less than twelve" parsecs.

    Nick

  12. #42
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    Okay, confession time: I dated Han Solo.

    He's prone to exaggeration and hyperbole. Handsome guy and a good kisser, but you've got to take 48% of anything Han says with the proverbial grain of salt. He talks and talks; likes to hear himself talk. Chewie frequently gets fed up, dons ear phones and listens to music to drown him out.

    Why did we break up? I was abducted by a Norlo. Han's response? "Better her than me!" I found that out after being rescued (no one you know). Han wanted to reunite but no way.

    And thus ends my story. If you don't believe me, ask Chewie. He'll roar you.
    Dip me in ink and toss me to the Poets.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Okay, confession time: I dated Han Solo.

    He's prone to exaggeration and hyperbole. Handsome guy and a good kisser, but you've got to take 48% of anything Han says with the proverbial grain of salt. He talks and talks; likes to hear himself talk. Chewie frequently gets fed up, dons ear phones and listens to music to drown him out.

    Why did we break up? I was abducted by a Norlo. Han's response? "Better her than me!" I found that out after being rescued (no one you know). Han wanted to reunite but no way.
    ...
    Why that stuck up, half witted, scruffy looking, nerf-herder! No wonder you dumped him. You were too good for him anyway (even if you are an early riser).

    Nick

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