Flat Earth

[Roger E. Moore]

Can't think of another thread I so enjoy seeing derailed.

[grant hutchison]

Actually, I should have looked it up before asking. Apparently it means heavy in the regular sense, as it’s about carrying a sick brother or something,

Old Scottish story, actually, about a child who is carrying her baby brother - intended as a sort of parable. Up to now, I thought it was a well-known expression. Didn't know it was also a song.

Grant Hutchison

[Hornblower]

Can't think of another thread I so enjoy seeing derailed.

I'll second that. I have never encountered a Flat Earther, and from what I have read about them I consider them to be a quaint contrarian curiosity.

[slang]

Are you folks out of your friggin minds? Calling other people stupid, and yet so willfully, and after 2 years intentionally continuing, derailing an entire thread? Think before you post. Infractions all around.

[grant hutchison]

Well, since I'm here ...
I'd say that the "Area 51" thread that's currently running in Conspiracy tells us something about the apparent rise in popularity of Flat Earth belief.
The rise of social media and reality TV has modified people's behaviour in several ways:
1) People vote for stuff just to see what happens, to mix things up a bit
2) People don't mind associating themselves with false statements (just to see what happens, to mix things up a bit)
3) The results then echo around as click-bait until the next fad comes along

If you're standing on the edge of such a post-ironic explosion, you end up with a misleading idea of what all these folk actually believe.

Grant Hutchison

[George]

If you're standing on the edge of such a post-ironic explosion, you end up with a misleading idea of what all these folk actually believe.

Nicely put.

[Jbar]

In 1885 there was a publication that Challenged John Hopkins University concerning the author's 100 Proofs of a non-global earth, his name is W.M. Carpenter. This publication is found on the web -- "One Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe." Also You-Tube has some very good videos concerning the findings of flat areas with telescopes and far bodies in the horizons.

[Hornblower]

In 1885 there was a publication that Challenged John Hopkins University concerning the author's 100 Proofs of a non-global earth, his name is W.M. Carpenter. This publication is found on the web -- "One Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe." Also You-Tube has some very good videos concerning the findings of flat areas with telescopes and far bodies in the horizons.

My bold. I just found it online, and it is a lot of verbal razzle dazzle with no presentation of geometric proofs to support it. It might look impressive to a novice without any background in geometry, but it does not stand up to serious properly done observations. The burden is on a proponent to demonstrate the geometry, and not merely blow smoke in our faces.

[Peter B]

In 1885 there was a publication that Challenged John Hopkins University concerning the author's 100 Proofs of a non-global earth, his name is W.M. Carpenter. This publication is found on the web -- "One Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe." Also You-Tube has some very good videos concerning the findings of flat areas with telescopes and far bodies in the horizons.

G'day Jbar and welcome to the forum.

Before addressing any issues you think might be valid concerning claims the Earth is flat, I'd like you to consider a sort of meta-aspect of Flat Earth conspiracy theories.

Why?

If the Earth is flat, why would people want to conspire over centuries to hide this?

Look at it this way: for pretty much every major conspiracy theory going around, its proponents can provide a one sentence explanation of why the conspiracy exists.

Apollo was faked (because NASA couldn't work out how to get to the Moon);

Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA/Military-Industrial Complex (because he wanted America to not get involved in Vietnam);

Roosevelt allowed the Japanese to surprise the US Navy at Pearl Harbor (because he wanted to unite the USA in a war against Japan)...and so on.

I don't believe any of these theories, but I can understand what comes after "...because..." as it makes sense (even if the evidence is against each of the explanations).

But now try this with the Flat Earth conspiracy theory:

People have pretended for thousands of years that the Earth is a globe (because...)...

I have never seen anyone complete that sentence in any way that made the slightest sense.

But, seeing as you're here, would you like to make an attempt?

[Jens]

I would say this: if the flat earth theory is true, the most convincing reason that most of us reject it is simply that it is so much easier to explain the world we live in by assuming the earth is spherical. I have traveled around the world and have experienced the fact that the sun rises at different times, so my natural belief is that it is round and I will somewhat automatically reject another system, even if it turns out to be correct. So I think this would be an unusual situation where the wrong explanation would just seem to fit the observations better. A case where Occam’s razor fails us.

But of course I’m only saying this for argument’s sake. The earth is a sphere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grant hutchison]

In 1885 there was a publication that Challenged John Hopkins University concerning the author's 100 Proofs of a non-global earth, his name is W.M. Carpenter. This publication is found on the web -- "One Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe." Also You-Tube has some very good videos concerning the findings of flat areas with telescopes and far bodies in the horizons.

For those who are interested, Project Gutenberg has it here. "Proofs" range from a misunderstanding of mirages to a misunderstanding of geometry, via a misunderstanding of charting conventions, some outright falsehoods, and a pretence to knowing the Mind of a Benevolent Creator.

Grant Hutchison

[Swift]

In 1885 there was a publication that Challenged John Hopkins University concerning the author's 100 Proofs of a non-global earth, his name is W.M. Carpenter. This publication is found on the web -- "One Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe." Also You-Tube has some very good videos concerning the findings of flat areas with telescopes and far bodies in the horizons.

Jbar

Welcome to CQ. We need to know whether you are personally advocating that the Earth is flat and are offering this reference as proof, or are just pointing this reference out. If you are advocating this position, you will need to defend it.

[Hornblower]

Now that we have links to that publication, we can have an educational discussion by refuting those assertions. Let's start with the first one, in which Mr. Carpenter asserts that an aeronaut (clearly a balloonist in his era) perceives the horizon as being at his eye level. As of 1885 balloonists had reached nearly 28,000 feet (ref. Guinness Book of World Records, 1973 edition), at which the horizon dip is nearly 3 degrees. This dip might not be obvious at a glance if the observer is not looking for it, but a carefully leveled sighting device will show it clearly unless the air is horribly murky.

[Reality Check]

In 1885 ....

We can almost stop at the publication date of 1885, Jbar. Sceince and technology has developed since then, e.g. people have been in at high altitudes and in space and saw with their own eyes that the Earth is not flat.
Flat Earth YouTube videos have never supported a flat Earth - they actually debunk the idea! When they look with telescopes at far bodies on the horizon they see the bottom of the bodies hidden by the curvature of the Earth.

[Spacedude]

If the Earth is flat I'd like to travel to the edge to see the view from there.

[publiusr]

Gotcha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammarion_engraving

[Gillianren]

One of my hobbies, as some of you know, is making conspiracy theories fit the available evidence, and this is on my list of simply impossible ones. It fails the "why" test and the "how" test, and I cannot make it fit either of them.

[George]

One of my hobbies, as some of you know, is making conspiracy theories fit the available evidence, and this is on my list of simply impossible ones. It fails the "why" test and the "how" test, and I cannot make it fit either of them.

Yeah, and we can go back 2500 years and see that even then they had strong legitimate arguments against it. Even the very few flat earth related scriptures were forced from literal to allegorical thanks to folks like Aquinas after Aristotle's works were introduced to Europe, which is of a globe not a round disk. [The latter is contrary to those who suggest it was a round disk argument.]

[The Backroad Astronomer]

One of my hobbies, as some of you know, is making conspiracy theories fit the available evidence, and this is on my list of simply impossible ones. It fails the "why" test and the "how" test, and I cannot make it fit either of them.

For a while a feared this might of been you.
https://youtu.be/e_p2FiY-ReE
Can't watch her videos anymore my brain cells start to go on strike whenever I do.

[grant hutchison]

Well, since I'm here ...
I'd say that the "Area 51" thread that's currently running in Conspiracy tells us something about the apparent rise in popularity of Flat Earth belief.
The rise of social media and reality TV has modified people's behaviour in several ways:
1) People vote for stuff just to see what happens, to mix things up a bit
2) People don't mind associating themselves with false statements (just to see what happens, to mix things up a bit)
3) The results then echo around as click-bait until the next fad comes along

If you're standing on the edge of such a post-ironic explosion, you end up with a misleading idea of what all these folk actually believe.

Case in point: The University of Sussex Flat Earth Society holds a meeting in a pub called The Globe, with hundreds signing up to attend.

(While searching for a link to this story, I turned up the best proof I'm aware of that the Earth is not flat - if it were actually flat, cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now.)

Grant Hutchison

[Hornblower]

For a while a feared this might of been you.
https://youtu.be/e_p2FiY-ReE
Can't watch her videos anymore my brain cells start to go on strike whenever I do.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Her cutesy, sickly-sweet manner appears to be aimed at children, which is an outrage when we should be teaching them good science.

Modern technology is not critical for inferring the round Earth. Astronomical, surveying and navigation techniques from many centuries back are ample. A view from a spacecraft is like driving a carpet tack into a coffin that has already been nailed up with railroad spikes.

[monkeyboysdontknow]

Can't watch her videos anymore my brain cells start to go on strike whenever I do.

I have seen some of her videos and understand where you are coming from, but I actually think she is not really serious. To me she seems like she is copying Gracie Allen's comedy style, and by pretending to be so ditsy, she is just yanking everyone's chains. Especially the chains attached to the hackles of the FE community. By getting them to support her, she is just showing how ridiculously easy it is for them to be swayed by any insipid thing that fits within their prejudices. Of course, I could be wrong, but if I am, I wonder who turns the lights on for her.

[The Backroad Astronomer]

I have seen some of her videos and understand where you are coming from, but I actually think she is not really serious. To me she seems like she is copying Gracie Allen's comedy style, and by pretending to be so ditsy, she is just yanking everyone's chains. Especially the chains attached to the hackles of the FE community. By getting them to support her, she is just showing how ridiculously easy it is for them to be swayed by any insipid thing that fits within their prejudices. Of course, I could be wrong, but if I am, I wonder who turns the lights on for her.

I have seen some of her videos where she says she was pyschology or sociology grad student and something happened. But I think she actually thinks the Earth is flat. But if one person thinks the Earth is flat because of her and most of the people leaving comments do, she is doing more of dis-service than a service.

[Sticks]

Case in point: The University of Sussex Flat Earth Society holds a meeting in a pub called The Globe, with hundreds signing up to attend.

(While searching for a link to this story, I turned up the best proof I'm aware of that the Earth is not flat - if it were actually flat, cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now.)

Grant Hutchison

But some may say that that is evidence of a Young Flat Earth....

[The Backroad Astronomer]

But some may say that that is evidence of a Young Flat Earth....

I wonder if their globe wobbles.

[grant hutchison]

But some may say that that is evidence of a Young Flat Earth....

Grant Hutchison

[Swift]

Speaking of cosmology, I took this photo recently at the Cleveland Zoo, proving that it is turtles all the way down.

https://forum.cosmoquest.org/attachm...3&d=1565966027

[Gillianren]

For a while a feared this might of been you.

No, no--I'd make it clear that I don't actually believe any of the versions I have come up with, nor do I share them except in the context of "if you must have a conspiracy theory about [thing], why not this one that actually makes sense?"

[The Backroad Astronomer]

Speaking of cosmology, I took this photo recently at the Cleveland Zoo, proving that it is turtles all the way down.

https://forum.cosmoquest.org/attachm...3&d=1565966027

I forgot it was turtles all the down.

[Trebuchet]

Speaking of cosmology, I took this photo recently at the Cleveland Zoo, proving that it is turtles all the way down.

https://forum.cosmoquest.org/attachm...3&d=1565966027

Needs more elephants!