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Thread: Chinese space walk conspiracy

  1. #1
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    Chinese space walk conspiracy

    Hi all.

    I have never bought into a conspiracy theory before, but there are some oddities in a couple of youtube clips concerning the recent chinese space walks that I must admit I find convincing. It bothers me because the clips has several hallmarks of any other nutty conspiracy theory (which makes me feel all dirty), from the shotgun approach to the multible exclamation points in the title, but still there are things in the footage that just seems bizarre. I realize that conspiracy theory arguments often sound very convincing at first, until the real and rather mundane explanation is presented.

    I'm not really interested in kneejerk dismissals, but well-reasoned arguments if possible.

    Here's one of the videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tri2l7OHpGw

    Perhaps the one I find most convincing is the "bubble", or whatever it is, that is flying upwards, but then enters the frame again in the upper left corner heading in another direction, in 2:16-2:23 in the video. At 2:54-2:58 the cord does seem to float upwards, apparently independently of the movements of the astronaut. It seems to me like he's actively trying to prevent it from floating upwards.

    Would like to hear some thoughts, thanks.

    Peter

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    Welcome to BAUT, plindboe. Please keep in mind that because you're new here, any post you make that contains links must be approved by a moderator before they'll appear on the board. I've deleted the duplicate of your first post.

    You should also take a moment to look over our Rules For Posting To This Board. Since you've posted to the Conspiracy Theory Forum, you should take note of rule 13 in particular. I hope you enjoy your time here.
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    No, it really happened, but the spacewalker was much younger than the Chinese first claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZappBrannigan View Post
    No, it really happened, but the spacewalker was much younger than the Chinese first claimed.
    The evidence for this is?

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    The evidence for this is?

    Jon
    i think this was a reference to the Chinese Olympic gymnastics team..
    you know- humor..

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    The evidence for this is?

    Jon
    I found the evidence on a site with lots of blue and purple lettering on a lime green background with lots of animated gifs and YouTube videos that just said "video removed by user" when I clicked on them. Also I'm pretty sure it gave me the conficker virus.

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    Eewww!

    It may have been derived from this (unfunny IMHO) satirical piece http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~hsp/?id=170_Taikonaut ?

    Spacefacts gives the most detailed information. Zhai Zhigang was born October 10 1966 in the Chinese Lunar Calender (November 21 1966 western http://www.spacefacts.de/bios/intern...ai_zhigang.htm - this made him 41 or 42 at the time of his EVA, depending on whether you include his birth year in the tally. Almost all news sources at the time gave his age as 42.

    Jon

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    *sigh*

    Okay, just to be clear, I found this info on www.IWasMakingAJoke.com.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersCreek View Post
    Welcome to BAUT, plindboe. Please keep in mind that because you're new here, any post you make that contains links must be approved by a moderator before they'll appear on the board. I've deleted the duplicate of your first post.


    Thanks for the welcome, and sorry for the duplicate post.


    Quote Originally Posted by PetersCreek View Post
    You should also take a moment to look over our Rules For Posting To This Board. Since you've posted to the Conspiracy Theory Forum, you should take note of rule 13 in particular. I hope you enjoy your time here.
    I must admit I rarely read rules, as never really behave in an unruly manner, but I'll give them a read since you kindly pointed them out.

    Having read rule 13 I can only agree. I don't have any emotional attachment to this particular conspiracy theory, I mostly joined this place because I wanted to see there was any good debunking of it and I've heard good stuff about this place. Being scientifically minded, I'm looking for falsification of my ideas rather than affirmation.

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurelHS View Post
    Thanks for the links. I found the first thread earlier, before I started this thread, but didn't find the "debunking" very good, so I started this one in the hope that there are better anti-conspiracy arguments.

    Peter

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    I realize that most here are probably in a debunking mode, as this is the forum for silly conspiracies, but please just try to watch the following unedited video without bias and tell me if you agree with me that it's weird: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxQEHfU6hM

    At 0:50-1:07 notice how rope is trying to escape upwards and he's clumsily trying to push it down. Now, you don't have to be an insane conspiracy theorist to see that something is wrong there.

    But perhaps best of all, watch the video from 3:05-3:06 where you can see a "bubble" arising from his helmet, and immediately after, in the upper left corner, it comes flying downwards.

    Peter

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    The cable looks like a somewhat stiff cable with overly flexible hook connections in freefall...maybe they'll stiffen that joint with something in the future.

    Things don't seem to have the damping in their motions that would be expected from water immersion...the inertia without friction causes them trouble at several points. There are several instances of "bubbles", but no buoyancy to them...they actually seem to radiate from a projection further on down. Popping flakes of ice/paint/insulation from surfaces heating/cooling, perhaps caught in maneuvering thruster blasts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    I must admit I rarely read rules, as never really behave in an unruly manner, but I'll give them a read since you kindly pointed them out.
    But how do you know you're not being unruly until you read them? Standards are different all over the place. Reading the rules is just a sensible way to start--most of the bannings in this section are from Rule 13 violations, and that's not a common rule anywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    The cable looks like a somewhat stiff cable with overly flexible hook connections in freefall...maybe they'll stiffen that joint with something in the future.
    I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you making the point that there is tension in the rope that makes it bend upwards? That might be true. I wonder if anyone here knows some videos of other space walks where we see something similar?


    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    Things don't seem to have the damping in their motions that would be expected from water immersion...the inertia without friction causes them trouble at several points. There are several instances of "bubbles", but no buoyancy to them...they actually seem to radiate from a projection further on down. Popping flakes of ice/paint/insulation from surfaces heating/cooling, perhaps caught in maneuvering thruster blasts?
    My main focus in this thread is on the "bubble" we see at 3:06 in the upper left corner in the video in post #11.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    But how do you know you're not being unruly until you read them? Standards are different all over the place. Reading the rules is just a sensible way to start--most of the bannings in this section are from Rule 13 violations, and that's not a common rule anywhere.
    You're being needlessly argumentative about a nitpick. I said I would read the rules, I did and I agreed with them, so try to stay on topic instead of focusing on some perhaps poorly chosen words. Did you see the video I posted in #11? What's the thing that's flying downwards in the upper left corner at 3:06?

    Peter

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    I find the rules more interesting than yet another unfounded claim of hoaxery. Sorry.
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    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

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    Well, we do have a forum for discussing rules, plindboe has stated that he read the rules and so far has been polite and on topic so I think we can concentrate on the topic of the OP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    My main focus in this thread is on the "bubble" we see at 3:06 in the upper left corner in the video in post #11.
    I think you mean post 12.

    If so then it does not look like a "bubble". It doesn't move, it is just a small fuzzy blob that appears for less than half a second. It could be almost anything, interference, something in the camera, a glint of a piece of debris so close it is out of focus. But it doe snot rise so it can't be a bubble.

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    At 0:50-1:07 notice how rope is trying to escape upwards and he's clumsily trying to push it down. Now, you don't have to be an insane conspiracy theorist to see that something is wrong there.
    I disgaree, only an "insane conspiracy nut" would see that "something is wrong". A normal person might say "I don't understand why the rope appears to be coming out of the hatch, what explanations could there be?" Or they might realise that almost all pipes, ropes and wires tend to straighten out, as this one is doing, pushin itself out of the container in the process.

    Furthermore when a curved rope or cable in a confined area on a spacecraft is suddenly unconfined on one side it might float out. There are some good videos of astronuats on the shuttle fighting with cables coming out of a locker in exactly the same manner.

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    I realize that most here are probably in a debunking mode, as this is the forum for silly conspiracies, but please just try to watch the following unedited video without bias and tell me if you agree with me that it's weird: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxQEHfU6hM
    Yes, there are weird looking things in that video. But that doesn't mean they're suspicious. Remember, this is freefall in a vacuum, and what happens in that sort of environment is very different from what we're used to here on Earth.

    At 0:50-1:07 notice how rope is trying to escape upwards and he's clumsily trying to push it down. Now, you don't have to be an insane conspiracy theorist to see that something is wrong there.
    As I mentioned above, just because it's weird doesn't mean it's suspicious. Because the cable is weightless, the shape it takes is primarily determined by the shape it had when it was stowed. In this case, the shape of the cable is forcing it into a position "above" the bar to which it's tethered. That's why the cable looks like it's floating.

    But perhaps best of all, watch the video from 3:05-3:06 where you can see a "bubble" arising from his helmet, and immediately after, in the upper left corner, it comes flying downwards.
    Firstly, it's not obviously a bubble. It could easily be a small piece of debris from the cabin. It might repay to look carefully at the footage for a couple of seconds prior to 3:05 to see whether it's visible elsewhere prior to its appearance in front of the astronaut.

    Secondly, it's by no means obvious that what travels downwards a couple of seconds later is the same piece of debris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    I find the rules more interesting than yet another unfounded claim of hoaxery. Sorry.
    here we go...... pick pick pick. I'm sorry but the guys asking about the video and your talking about the rules which he agreed with in the first place. Thats why I post here once in a blue moon now as I honestly find I can get pounced on by other normal members if I do something slightly wrong or am not agreed with. Tell me off if you will or have a mod tell me off. I just feel thats how it is. How about we answer the guys questions instead of being negative. To add further to my point, the Mod did their job and pointed out the rules. You do not need to carry on complaining to the original poster about those rules or your thoughts about those rules. It is not what you are meant to do as you are not a mod or admin. I think carrying on talking about rules after a mod or admin has pointed them out should not be allowed.
    Last edited by dirty_g; 2009-Apr-28 at 12:24 PM. Reason: I keep making spelling mistakes

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    I think you mean post 12.
    Indeed it's post #12 now (My response to LaurelHS appeared a day late).


    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    If so then it does not look like a "bubble". It doesn't move, it is just a small fuzzy blob that appears for less than half a second.
    You can see it in slow motion in the video in post #1 at 2:18-2:19 where it clearly moves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
    Yes, there are weird looking things in that video. But that doesn't mean they're suspicious.
    That's a good point that I can only agree with. That's why I'm here after all, because I'm open to other explanations that I might not have considered. If I find satisfying explanations I'll happily return to where I first heard about this to debunk it myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
    Remember, this is freefall in a vacuum, and what happens in that sort of environment is very different from what we're used to here on Earth.

    As I mentioned above, just because it's weird doesn't mean it's suspicious. Because the cable is weightless, the shape it takes is primarily determined by the shape it had when it was stowed. In this case, the shape of the cable is forcing it into a position "above" the bar to which it's tethered. That's why the cable looks like it's floating.
    Good explanation. I consider the cable thing properly addressed now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
    Firstly, it's not obviously a bubble. It could easily be a small piece of debris from the cabin. It might repay to look carefully at the footage for a couple of seconds prior to 3:05 to see whether it's visible elsewhere prior to its appearance in front of the astronaut.
    I used the quotation marks around the word bubble because I don't claim to know it's a bubble and considered the bubble claim questionable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
    Secondly, it's by no means obvious that what travels downwards a couple of seconds later is the same piece of debris.
    The problem is that there is only empty space above, you can clearly see that as it switches to the other camera.

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    I disgaree, only an "insane conspiracy nut" would see that "something is wrong". A normal person might say "I don't understand why the rope appears to be coming out of the hatch, what explanations could there be?"
    I do not consider it a reasonable approach to divide the world up into those who are "insane nuts" and those who are "normal". In reality, we're all fallible creatures, and we all reach wrong conclusions from time to time. The best we can do is to seek out disagrement and try to learn from it.

    That said, let's lot divert the topic with unnecessary ad hominems.

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain swoop View Post
    Well, we do have a forum for discussing rules, plindboe has stated that he read the rules and so far has been polite and on topic so I think we can concentrate on the topic of the OP.
    Let me just repeat what captain swoop said. There has been a lot of snippiness, and as much, if not more, from the regulars as from plindboe. Please, let's keep this polite.
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    This is the first I'm coming to this whole Chinese spacewalk controversy, but I did find that the Earth's limb did not look like it does in most other videos I've seen. Also, how high up was that spacewalk supposed to take place, because the curve of the Earth looks like it was pretty high up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Robot View Post
    This is the first I'm coming to this whole Chinese spacewalk controversy, but I did find that the Earth's limb did not look like it does in most other videos I've seen. Also, how high up was that spacewalk supposed to take place, because the curve of the Earth looks like it was pretty high up.
    Consider lens angle also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Consider lens angle also.
    Yes, I was going to mention that it might depend on angle and focal length of the lens. But the issue with the Earth's limb is one of interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    I do not consider it a reasonable approach to divide the world up into those who are "insane nuts" and those who are "normal". In reality, we're all fallible creatures, and we all reach wrong conclusions from time to time. The best we can do is to seek out disagrement and try to learn from it.

    That said, let's lot divert the topic with unnecessary ad hominems.

    Peter
    I agree, but you introduced the terms and the dichotomy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
    You can see it in slow motion in the video in post #1 at 2:18-2:19 where it clearly moves.
    Ah, thank you, that is much better. When you stop and start the video in half second increments the right looks angular to me and changes in attitude as well. I think it is a small piece of flat debris, foil, insulation paper maybe. The same appears to be the case on the right hand side one as well. Again, flatness, angularitry and opposite sense of movement are not what you woudl expect from bubbles.

    Good explanation. I consider the cable thing properly addressed now.
    Cool!


    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    Ah, thank you, that is much better. When you stop and start the video in half second increments the right looks angular to me and changes in attitude as well. I think it is a small piece of flat debris, foil, insulation paper maybe. The same appears to be the case on the right hand side one as well. Again, flatness, angularitry and opposite sense of movement are not what you woudl expect from bubbles.
    Whether they are bubbles or not is not my claim, as I pointed out in post #22, and neither my concern, at least for the moment. The video (post #1) does try to make a case for why the "bubbles" (or whatever they are) move in various directions, and I'm sure that conclusion can be argued against.

    But ignore that for the moment, as I'm right now trying to limit the focus on a single curiosity, that I'd like to hear some possible explanations of, and not get distracted by the various other arguments presented in the OP video. To try to clear things up I'll ask a few questions:

    1.Do you agree that any debris sent flying by astronauts or moving parts of the spacecraft will continue in a straight line relative to the spacecraft (at least within a limited time frame)?
    2.Do you agree that the debris in the upper left corner in the footage (at 3:06 in the video, post #12) is flying downwards and to the left?
    3.Do you agree that there are no astronauts and no moving parts of the spacecraft above the camera (the camera that's films the moving debris)? (You can see this clearly as it changes to an oppositely positioned camera at 3:07)

    If you agree with all three questions, what set in motion the debris in the upper left corner?

    Peter

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