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Thread: Why still there is no Alien contact ?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by canopuss View Post
    There are 70 sextillion stars in the universe. Universe has been there for 13.7 billion years.., then why there is still no contact ? !
    Simple! There is no "intelligent"(however you may define it) civilization other than humans on planet Earth in our galaxy. There may be microbes, insects, trees, fish, birds, large mammals size of dinosaurs, semi-intelligent lizards or dolphins, etc. somewhere out there. However, not one of those creatures has the capacity to transmit radio signals, or possess interstellar flight.
    We see no artificial arrangements of clusters of stars into geometric shapes; thus there are no aliens with god-like powers.
    No radio signals have been received; thus SETI is a waste of time.
    We see no sentinels/monoliths as in Arthur C.Clarke's & Stanley Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey' left anywhere on Earth, the Moon, Jupiter, or Mars.
    Had aliens visited Earth they would've left a device, a type of space ship, that could listen for radio or TV transmissions from Earth. Once received, the ship turns on, a door opens for whomever is smart and brave enough to enter, a single button is in the center of the ship: "START". Once the button is pushed, the door shuts, and the ship takes off for a space/time voyage to an alien world. We've had radio since 19th C. but no aliens.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomar View Post
    Simple! There is no "intelligent"(however you may define it) civilization other than humans on planet Earth in our galaxy. There may be microbes, insects, trees, fish, birds, large mammals size of dinosaurs, semi-intelligent lizards or dolphins, etc. somewhere out there. However, not one of those creatures has the capacity to transmit radio signals, or possess interstellar flight.
    We see no artificial arrangements of clusters of stars into geometric shapes; thus there are no aliens with god-like powers.
    No radio signals have been received; thus SETI is a waste of time.
    We see no sentinels/monoliths as in Arthur C.Clarke's & Stanley Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey' left anywhere on Earth, the Moon, Jupiter, or Mars.
    Had aliens visited Earth they would've left a device, a type of space ship, that could listen for radio or TV transmissions from Earth. Once received, the ship turns on, a door opens for whomever is smart and brave enough to enter, a single button is in the center of the ship: "START". Once the button is pushed, the door shuts, and the ship takes off for a space/time voyage to an alien world. We've had radio since 19th C. but no aliens.
    Another post where supposition and assumption are taken as fact. Also, an "If I Ran the Zoo" sort of fallacy.
    Last edited by SolusLupus; 2009-Dec-13 at 10:43 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKevin View Post
    Let's assume there is dozens of intelligent life in the galaxy with the means to contact us with ease. There would still be many reasons to ignore us:

    We aren't technologically advanced enough yet to care about.
    We don't pose any threat.
    We are seen as stupid compared to most intelligent life.
    We kill each other on our own planet.
    Given that we are prone to violence ... it would not surprise me if our "goldilock" status might prove inviting to any advanced society after we tragically vacate?

  4. #34
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    Why is there still on Alien contact? Simple, it's because complex life is rare and intelligent life is probably non-existent. See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    ...intelligent life is probably non-existent.
    Jokes aside, what do you call humans?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    Why is there still on Alien contact? Simple, it's because complex life is rare and intelligent life is probably non-existent. See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis
    Ah yes, those that tout speculation as fact.

    How they love to stay amongst us.

  7. #37
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    It's possible that life is a fairly recent phenomenon, despite the overall age of the Universe, and therefore we may well be part of the first generation of intelligent lifeforms, if not the first itself.

    The sci-fi fan in me hopes this isn't true, because I like the idea of us one day bumping into an interstellar civilization (being sufficiently advanced ourselves, of course!), but I think it's important to consider all avenues, including the most pessimistic.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomar View Post
    Simple! There is no "intelligent"(however you may define it) civilization other than humans on planet Earth in our galaxy. There may be microbes, insects, trees, fish, birds, large mammals size of dinosaurs, semi-intelligent lizards or dolphins, etc. somewhere out there. However, not one of those creatures has the capacity to transmit radio signals, or possess interstellar flight.
    We see no artificial arrangements of clusters of stars into geometric shapes; thus there are no aliens with god-like powers.
    No radio signals have been received; thus SETI is a waste of time.
    We see no sentinels/monoliths as in Arthur C.Clarke's & Stanley Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey' left anywhere on Earth, the Moon, Jupiter, or Mars.
    Had aliens visited Earth they would've left a device, a type of space ship, that could listen for radio or TV transmissions from Earth. Once received, the ship turns on, a door opens for whomever is smart and brave enough to enter, a single button is in the center of the ship: "START". Once the button is pushed, the door shuts, and the ship takes off for a space/time voyage to an alien world. We've had radio since 19th C. but no aliens.
    It was this type of thinking that I was trying to dispel with my first post in this thread. The idea that aliens will think the same way humans do is pure speculation. Alien psychology may very well be just that; alien. They might think that the things that motivate humans are absolutely bizarre, and perhaps even unethical by their standards. Of course, this is just speculation on my part, but so is the idea that they will be like us, so I don't think that we should just assume that aliens are going to be like weird-looking humans.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sexy Jupiter View Post
    It's possible that life is a fairly recent phenomenon, despite the overall age of the Universe, and therefore we may well be part of the first generation of intelligent lifeforms, if not the first itself.

    The sci-fi fan in me hopes this isn't true, because I like the idea of us one day bumping into an interstellar civilization (being sufficiently advanced ourselves, of course!), but I think it's important to consider all avenues, including the most pessimistic.
    I also think there is a good chance that we might be alone in the galaxy, but I think that this would actually be a good thing for humans. With no one else out there, there would be unlimited room for expansion, and no unpleasant bullys to run into.

  10. #40
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    Either that or they "are unwilling to respond or unable to respond."

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelus View Post
    I also think there is a good chance that we might be alone in the galaxy, but I think that this would actually be a good thing for humans. With no one else out there, there would be unlimited room for expansion, and no unpleasant bullys to run into.
    No one to learn from, no developments to gain...

    As Monty Python put it: "What did the Romans ever do for us?!"

  12. #42
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    As has been said already, just because we haven't detected any alien transmissions doesn't in any way prove that aliens don't exist. It simply puts some limitations as to where they are or how they communicate.

    Consider this, suppose there's a thriving alien civilization 10,000 ly away, but still in our galaxy. They have been spacefaring for 5 millennia and have colonized thousands of solar systems in their region of the galaxy, would we know about them? No, absolutely not.

    We couldn't possibly, since even their earliest radio transmissions will not reach us for another 5,000 years. Equally they will not know of our civilization's existence, they may have studied the Earth and know that it has life, but they would not have detected anything from our technology yet. If both of our civilizations manage to survive for another few millennia, then we may pick up each other's transmissions, and then if we deliberately communicate with each other, we'll be able to have a conversation in a few tens of thousands of years. Maybe if both civilizations can last long enough we can meet face to face one day, but that won't be for a very long time.

    If 10,000 lys was the average separation of alien civilizations throughout the galaxy, and if the galaxy has a volume of about 1.2e+13 cubic ly (my estimate), then there’d be 12 civilizations in the galaxy. And we wouldn't know about any of them and they wouldn't know about us. Even if there was a civilization every 1,000 lys, then there'd be 12,000 civilizations and we still probably wouldn't know about them or vice versa. So the galaxy could be teeming with aliens and we could be totally in the dark about them. So, why no alien contact still? We simply haven't been here long enough, we haven't been noticed yet.

  13. #43
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ3wh2cjekE

    I though this Film provides a little insight to the whole E.T. argument...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    As has been said already, just because we haven't detected any alien transmissions doesn't in any way prove that aliens don't exist. It simply puts some limitations as to where they are or how they communicate.

    ...

    So the galaxy could be teeming with aliens and we could be totally in the dark about them. So, why no alien contact still? We simply haven't been here long enough, we haven't been noticed yet.
    And as has doubtlessly been said before, but are my favorite concepts:

    They have detected us (1000 years ago or yesterday) and thought, "My what interesting animals. Lets see what develops in a few millenia."

    Or they're madly trying to signal to us but using frequencies or mechanisms we haven't (yet) conceived of.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    As has been said already, just because we haven't detected any alien transmissions doesn't in any way prove that aliens don't exist. It simply puts some limitations as to where they are or how they communicate.
    It puts extremely few limitations. Basically, they probably aren't currently widespread in the inner solar system, or the central Jupiter and Saturn systems.

  16. #46
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    Ah yes, those that tout speculation as fact.

    How they love to stay amongst us.


    This thread and all the others with the same subject on here are all about speculation because that's all we can do. All speculations should be considered but in the light of the evidence some speculations are more likely than others.

    The fact we are not seeing any evidence of what we consider intelligent life must mean something, and that fact should inform our speculations.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    ...some speculations are more likely than others....
    ...fact should inform our speculations.
    The most informative facts are the universal speed limit and the distances involved.

    The only way around those facts is to speculate on the existence faster than light technologies -- a very UN-informed speculation.

    We may get to the point where spectroscopic examination of planets can indicate the presence of life and even intelligent life -- at least at the time the light we see left the planet, hundreds or thousands of years ago.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by centsworth_II View Post
    The most informative facts are the universal speed limit and the distances involved.

    The only way around those facts is to speculate on the existence faster than light technologies -- a very UN-informed speculation.

    We may get to the point where spectroscopic examination of planets can indicate the presence of life and even intelligent life -- at least at the time the light we see left the planet, hundreds or thousands of years ago.

    Actually that made me wonder, what are the chances of detecting industrial gases in the atmosphere of a planet orbiting another star? I don't mean the technology of doing so but the fact that such gases might not be around for long in the bigger picture. CFC's for example, our civilization used them for a few decades before discovering the problems they entailed and moving away from them. And if a civilization moves to using wind wave, solar or nuclear power how long would the traces of the use of fossil fuels last?

  19. #49
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    Centsworth II -the big problem you've got with the hypothesis that intelligent life is common, is the "where are they ?" question.

    I find it unlikely that technological civilisations, many of them millions of years in advance of us, could abound throughout the galaxy whilst not being in slightest bit detectable to us, or that any of them would come visit or left signs of visiting in the past. (The speed of light limitation may not be overcome, but interstellar travel will surely become possible, at least for robotic probes.)

    This leaves you with the possibilities that they are intentionally hiding all signs of themselves, perhaps because they think that's for our own good, or that technological civilisations are not at all common.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropaKing View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ3wh2cjekE

    I though this Film provides a little insight to the whole E.T. argument...
    People have already commented on this video in the other thread you started. Did you read the responses in that thread?

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    I find it unlikely that technological civilisations, many of them millions of years in advance of us, could abound throughout the galaxy whilst not being in slightest bit detectable to us,
    By what mechanism do you think we would have detected these interstellar civilizations throughout the galaxy?

    We have not yet even fielded telescopes capable of seeing PLANET sized objects around Alpha Centauri--a mere 4.3 light years away.

    So what sensors are you thinking of that would have detected alien civilizations?

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    Centsworth II -the big problem you've got with the hypothesis that intelligent life is common, is the "where are they ?"
    I don't think intelligent life is common. Nor do I think it is non-existent (we exist, after all). I think intelligent life is rare enough that there is none advanced enough and close enough to be easily seen.

    Of course, "rare" is relative. Extraterrestrial civilizations could be, on average, 10,000 light years apart in the Milky Way, and there would still be room for 50 of them. And that's just the civilizations capable of sending signals over such distances. Less advanced intelligent civilizations could be much more closely spaced without finding out about each other.

    I think that the reason we have not been contacted is easily and reasonably explained by great distances and relative rareness of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations. There is no reason at all to imagine that there are extraterrestrials that know about us and could contact us but desire not to.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by centsworth_II View Post
    I don't think intelligent life is common. Nor do I think it is non-existent (we exist, after all). I think intelligent life is rare enough that there is none advanced enough and close enough to be easily seen.

    Of course, "rare" is relative.
    For all we know so far, intelligent life could evolve in 100% of star systems.

    We simply have not yet deployed the sort of sensors suitable for detecting intelligent life in another star system, unless they have specifically beamed a message at us.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacKuo View Post
    For all we know so far, intelligent life could evolve in 100% of star systems....
    True, there could be much intelligent life in the galaxy without us knowing about it. After all, it's just within the last hundred years or so that we could have known about intelligent life on Mars -- if it existed. I think the fact that we have not been contacted indicates the relative rareness (or non-existence) of super advanced, galaxy traveling civilizations. Less advanced civilizations, like ours could be much more common without us knowing about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacKuo View Post
    We have not yet even fielded telescopes capable of seeing PLANET sized objects around Alpha Centauri--a mere 4.3 light years away.
    ...and it seems we are not even 100% sure that Alpha Centauri is really the closest star.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by centsworth_II View Post
    I think the fact that we have not been contacted indicates the relative rareness (or non-existence) of super advanced, galaxy traveling civilizations. Less advanced civilizations, like ours could be much more common without us knowing about them.
    By what means do you think we would have detected super advanced galaxy traveling civilizations?

  27. #57
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    By what means do you think we would have detected super advanced galaxy traveling civilizations?

    They'd be here ! Not only that they'd have been here since long before the dinosaurs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    By what means do you think we would have detected super advanced galaxy traveling civilizations?

    They'd be here!
    Why, precisely?

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    Quote Originally Posted by canopuss View Post
    Why an Alien civilisation which may have evolved before the formation of the earth hasn’t still made any contact with us ?
    The Earth has been around for 5 billion years. We've been listening, and only a tiny tiny amount, for about 50 years.

    That's 0.000001% the age of the Earth.

    It's a numbers game. There are so many variables and so much time involved that we simply have no realistic grasp, even to several orders of magnitude, of how many civilisations there might be out there, what they might be doing and if, indeed, that interstellar phonecall is overdue or not.

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    Why, precisely?

    It's been estimated the sun is about a billion years younger than the average sun-like star in the galaxy. Even in our own neighbourhood we have the Centauri system about a billion years older, and Tau Ceti is said to be several billions of years older.

    If the evolving of intelligence is practically inevitable, as some people write, there should be thousands of civilisations in the galaxy much older than ours. It only takes about a million years, let's be generous 10 million years, to colonise the galaxy even when limited to a few percent of the speed of light.

    Since there should be civilisations of the order of a billion years older than ours, this is the crux of the Fermi paradox.

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